[RLacey]

Originally Posted by Melanie68

It would be interesting to know how they dealt with the protein to either minimize or eliminate eventual degradation?

Would it? Would it really?

j/k

Yes, it would .

[undeaf]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Not really, I've already seen many people give up on PS3 beacuse of its Blu-ray drive, ie. price and delays, which are both directly linked to its inclusion.

Doesn't mean that they don't trust the blue ray drive to be a vital part of making the PS3 what it is, even if they deem the PS3 excessive.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Sorry, but that's one of the most ridiculous ideas I've ever heard.

Ridiculous? Lots of people use multiple drives to increase performance, ever heard of raid? And some games, like the baldur's gate series, allowed you to use multiple CD drives.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Except for that silly dual DVD part, that's exactly what they'll do in 3-4 years, when they launch their next console.

A successor to the xbox 360 in 4 years? That's presumptuous in all sorts of ways. For one, they're already pumping ~290 watts of juice through that thing.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Doing it sooner would enrage their whole user base.

As if they have much of a user base to enrage?

[Dasilva]

Originally Posted by undeaf

As if they have much of a user base to enrage?

Thats low. The 360 has a nice big base and its still growing.

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by undeaf

Doesn't mean that they don't trust the blue ray drive to be a vital part of making the PS3 what it is, even if they deem the PS3 excessive.

Considering how many people explicitly question the necessity of its inclusion, I'd say it doesn't mean that they do, either.

Ridiculous? Lots of people use multiple drives to increase performance, ever heard of raid? And some games, like the baldur's gate series, allowed you to use multiple CD drives.

Ridiculous. Let me spell it out for you: R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S. RAID only works for hard drives, you know?

A successor to the xbox 360 in 4 years? That's presumptuous in all sorts of ways. For one, they're already pumping ~290 watts of juice through that thing.

Four years tops, maybe even three (from now). Xbox was on the market for only 4 years before Xbox 360 arrived. The power consumption should be reduced with the transition to the 65nm production process early next year.

As if they have much of a user base to enrage?

You're funny. No, really.

[undeaf]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Considering how many people explicitly question the necessity of its inclusion, I'd say it doesn't mean that they do, either.

Perhaps people who actually have a rough idea of what a PS3 will be like do, but how is that reflective of the average consumer at all?

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Ridiculous. Let me spell it out for you: R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S. RAID only works for hard drives, you know?

Using two devices to double throughput only works with hard drives? I'm sorry, could you help me spell that? Uhh, M-A-G-I-C?

http://ohlssonvox.8k.com/fdd_raid.htm Even raid in particular, which IMO is often not a very good way of making use of multiple drives, does work on other devices.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Four years tops, maybe even three (from now). Xbox was on the market for only 4 years before Xbox 360 arrived. The power consumption should be reduced with the transition to the 65nm production process early next year.

Gamecube to Wii was 5 years, PS2 to PS3 was 6 years.

Efficiency almost always improved with a new process. Yet almost all consoles used significantly more power than their predecessors(and this was also usually true for CPUs).

Now they've hit a heat wall which prevents significant clock increases and diminishes efficiency improvements.

And, with the 360, microsoft abandoned off the shelf parts and still made the console more expensive.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

You're funny. No, really.

Microsoft is easy to laugh at. *dodges flying chair*

[MoriartyL]

Originally Posted by Jat316sob

What are all these gamers supposed to do, that Sony said would buy their machine without any games?

Now they don't get a console either!

So...? Who needs a console? Sony will have a massive European ad campaign with the slogan "Give us your money.". They will generously, for the low low price of $250, hand out checks already addressed to themselves for $600, and the fans will be stumbling on top of each other in their rush to do their patriotic duty of signing as many of them as possible. It's the Sony brand that counts, see, not the console.

[Stiltzkin]

I'm surprised they haven't included a MiniDisc slot too. Gotta support those Sony formats.

[Kolzig]

Yeah, the failed formats, on Sony's part that's an amazingly long list.

[Lucien21]

As long as it doesn't play UMD discs. *shiver*

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by undeaf

Perhaps people who actually have a rough idea of what a PS3 will be like do, but how is that reflective of the average consumer at all?

The average consumer may be uninformed now, but won't be after a coulpe of months of anti-Blu-ray propaganda which Microsoft, Toshiba, and maybe even Nintendo certainly won't be shy on. Come on, stop it, we could go on with our guesses forever. It's stupid.

Using two devices to double throughput only works with hard drives? I'm sorry, could you help me spell that? Uhh, M-A-G-I-C?

http://ohlssonvox.8k.com/fdd_raid.htm Even raid in particular, which IMO is often not a very good way of making use of multiple drives, does work on other devices.

So even if it was possible to connect multiple read-only devices in a RAID (which I'm still not sure of), your idea would still be ridiculous. It would increase the costs of both hardware and games AND make them more susceptible to damage. It would also increase those power requirements you seem to be so worried about. Not to mention that Xbox 360 doesn't need a faster drive. It could do with one, but so could anything.

Gamecube to Wii was 5 years, PS2 to PS3 was 6 years.

GameCube is not made by Microsoft and neither is PS2.

Efficiency almost always improved with a new process. Yet almost all consoles used significantly more power than their predecessors(and this was also usually true for CPUs).

Now they've hit a heat wall which prevents significant clock increases and diminishes efficiency improvements.

And, with the 360, microsoft abandoned off the shelf parts and still made the console more expensive.

OMG, this is the last console generation!

No, really, what's your point?

Microsoft is easy to laugh at. *dodges flying chair*

I didn't mean funny in that way, though. *checks his chairs... none missing*

[bysmitty]

While I'm going to stay out of the discussion on ps3, I'd like the comment on the power and heat wall comment. More speed doesn't necessarily mean more power or heat. Intel showed us how not to increase speed by purely pushing clock speeds on the netburst based Pentium CPUs. These ran absurdly hot and ate up wattage with ease. Then, two months ago, they showed us how to do it properly. Their core 2 duo processors are blisteringly fast (the cheapest c2d ($200) will readily overclock to well beyond fx62 ($800+) speeds) while still running at half the power and a dozen degrees cooler. Basically, my long-winded point being that there is no such thing as a "wall" in terms of technology.

...bysmitty

[undeaf]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

The average consumer may be uninformed now, but won't be after a coulpe of months of anti-Blu-ray propaganda which Microsoft, Toshiba, and maybe even Nintendo certainly won't be shy on. Come on, stop it, we could go on with our guesses forever. It's stupid.

That's assuming that that's what microsoft is going to target in their ads. That's not very likely if microsoft will eventually use an HD-DVD, Blue Ray or dual format add-on drive for games, and/or integrate one in a new xbox 360 version, which IMO is quite likely, since making a new console soon has it's problems. Of course toshiba and sony will bash each other's formats, but I think they'll focus more on hyping their own. As for nintendo, do we even know what their "gamecube optical discs" will be?

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

So even if it was possible to connect multiple read-only devices in a RAID (which I'm still not sure of), your idea would still be ridiculous.

It does not have to be raid specifically. It could be as simple as putting some files on one disc, some on another, and splitting some files in two. Why wouldn't something similar to raid be possible for read only devices?

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

It would increase the costs of both hardware and games AND make them more susceptible to damage.

DVD drives are not very expensive, two DVD drives would be a lot cheaper than a Blue ray or HD DVD drive, and would be comparable to single layer blue ray discs and single and dual layer HD-DVDs.

Multiple discs in the console at once would be less susceptible to damage compared to disc switching with multiple disc games. And game makers wouldn't have to use two discs for each game. Also, with speed improvements from two drives, it would be possible to throtle the speed a bit on the drives which would make them wear out a lot less(and make less noise).

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

It would also increase those power requirements you seem to be so worried about.

Optical drives do not use much power, and power/heat is only really a problem when it's concentrated in one area (heat is the big issue, power usage is just the way to measure it), optical drives do not normally get much airflow to cool them, they rely on conduction to the case and convection moreso than other conponents do.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

GameCube is not made by Microsoft and neither is PS2.

Doesn't mean that they play by a completely unrelated set of rules. The dreamcast came 4 years after the saturn, and it was said to have killed it early.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

OMG, this is the last console generation!

No, really, what's your point?

That it will be much harder to make a better console next time! To make a console that'll be close to as much of an improvement, they'll have to wait a lot longer, since the alternative seems very unlikely. To not wait extra, they'll have to use more expensive chips, use a heatsink at least comparable to a scythe ninja on the CPU(and also a better one on the GPU), and either use delta fans or make the console much bigger.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

I didn't mean funny in that way, though. *checks his chairs... none missing*

No, you see, steve balmer throws chairs in certain situations, such as when his employees quit to work for google, and perhaps also when people laugh at microsoft a lot.

[bysmitty]

I sure hope they don't put no delta fans in no console. Those things are jet engine loud.

...bysmitty

[artwking4]

Maybe the next next generation consoles will start coming with refrigerators built in to help cool them. Plus you can open it up and put your next soda or beer inside. Mmmm... Sweet, I can't wait.

Either that or you'll have to have to add coolant like it was some kind of automobile.

[bysmitty]

Well the refrigerator idea won't work since condensation would build up and short out the system. I have the coolant idea in place on my computer already. Hell, why not just ratchet on a mousepot and have people add their own dry ice to the next, next gen console.

...bysmitty

[artwking4]

Pshh... condensation. The console would also have a built-in dehumidifier. Problem solved. And even if condensation wasn't solved, this is the FUTURE we're talking about. In a few years, we'll probably have new technology that actually uses humidity. Vapourware will be a GOOD thing.

[kuze]

Pah, refrigerator...

[artwking4]

Ah... See, the PS3 will pay for itself after a few grillings. Rather than spend $50-100 at those fancy steak restaurants, grill at home and play video games. You can't afford NOT to buy one, now.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Whooo-boy. Score yet another notch on Sony's tarnishing rep...

Sony battery trouble spreads to Toshiba laptop computers | Yahoo News

Tue Sep 19, 4:15 AM ET TOKYO (AFP) - Japanese electronics giant Toshiba will recall 340,000 laptop computers worldwide due to pro

The batteries made by Sony might not be able to be recharged or produce power "but there is no fear of catching fire or emitting smoke," Toshiba spokesman Keisuke Omori said.

...The Toshiba recall is especially embarrassing for Sony which only last month announced it would have to take a hit of up to 257 million dollars for recalls of millions of its batteries by US computer makers Apple Computer and Dell.

...The US companies had voiced fears that the batteries could catch fire, with Apple recalling more than one million Sony batteries and Dell 4.1 million.

...The massive battery recall has hit Sony just as its painful restructuring drive had appeared to be paying off after a weak patch at the iconic Japanese company that created the Walkman.

...Sony and Toshiba have a longstanding rivalry, fighting it out most recently on the formats for next-generation DVDs.

I'm suspicious, considering that last sentence....

[insane_cobra]

Sony and Toshiba have a weird business relationship, fighting over HD video formats, cooperating on the Cell.