09-21-2006, 11:53 AM | #81 |
merely human
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 22,309
|
I've seen it happen regularly in this and other adventure gaming communities, that when a new game is announced many of us immediately want to know if it's 2D p&c or whatever. When a 3D game receives lousy or even mediocre reviews it's immediately lumped and subsequent 3D titles are associated with bad quality (leave it to the publishers and devs to help perpetuate this generalization by not designing a better game). Combine that with the often severe adherance to the status quo and, well, we've discussed it all before countless times.
__________________
platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs | gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii | blog: a space alien | book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris | games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain | sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer | music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake | twitter: a_space_alien |
09-21-2006, 12:06 PM | #82 |
FlipFrame
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 471
|
Yep we have...though I have to ask...isn't Beyond Good and Evil highly regarded in the community as a whole, or was it simply people like you being vocal about its quality that made it appear so? It seems to be the one game that is contrary otherwise to the opinions here about AG's, but I never questioned if it simply was lauded by the few like we are now with Bioshock, or if it somehow broke that barrier and was regarded globally(community).
|
09-21-2006, 12:19 PM | #83 | |
gin soaked boy
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Virovitica, Croatia
Posts: 4,093
|
Quote:
__________________
What you piss in is yours for life. |
|
09-21-2006, 12:29 PM | #84 |
FlipFrame
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 471
|
Actually I have his number...
You know whats funny, speaking of Ken Levine...and I SWEAR this is not me name-dropping...but I worked with him eons ago when they were still developing The Lost, and I absolutely do not remember his accent being that heavy, especially how it is at the begining of the video prior to actually demostrating the game. I can't tell if it's for show or if I'm going crazy...its almost distracting! As for system specs, the only thing you need is a 360...but if you MUST have it on the PC, be very very prepared. We're doing Unreal 3.0 development here, and I have a 3.4 ghz machine, 2 gigs ram and a 256meg 6800GT, and the shit craaaaawls...with only a character or two onscreen. Mind you we had like 6 dynamic soft-shadow casting lights on for glamor shots(overkill), but most of the demo's ran just slow enough to show how inferior my machine is to the Xbox...so with that said, not know how scalable they're gonna make Bioshock, I'd say get the best parts you posssibly can...its not like you can't use it for Crysis as well. EDIT: Removed a smilie...that many was ridiculous looking. Last edited by EvoG; 09-21-2006 at 12:37 PM. |
09-21-2006, 01:17 PM | #85 | |
merely human
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 22,309
|
Quote:
There was - and still is - a small but very vocal group of us touting Beyond Good & Evil for its very adventure game-y atmosphere, NOT in terms of featuring the old-and-tired puzzle concepts or traditional inventory systems and interfaces and the severely stingy lack of hotspots and interactivity, but for harking back to the what made adventure games very enjoyable - story, characters, exploration, and a deep gameworld you can lose yourself in. Plus, of course, the high quality was there in spades.
__________________
platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs | gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii | blog: a space alien | book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris | games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain | sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer | music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake | twitter: a_space_alien |
|
09-21-2006, 01:23 PM | #86 |
FlipFrame
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 471
|
So its the vocal group, not necessarily a full agreement by the community as a whole?
Oh, I found another! ...here ya go |
09-21-2006, 02:46 PM | #87 |
is not wierd
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,148
|
What RPG community are you talking about? I looked around for decent RPG message boards but couldn't find any.
You work on BioShock? |
09-21-2006, 03:40 PM | #88 | ||
FlipFrame
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 471
|
Quote:
www.rpgcodex.com (beware...really...enter at your own mental risk...tough skins only need apply...just remember, you LOVE Fallout/Arcanum, and you HATE Oblivion and wished it were more like DaggerFall, and you should be okay. Also, and this requires some research, but depending on who you talk to, you MIGHT like NWN, KotoR and BG series...but dont commit til you are sure its alright to do so. ) Quote:
|
||
09-21-2006, 05:18 PM | #89 | ||
is not wierd
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,148
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
09-21-2006, 05:49 PM | #90 | |
Super Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,907
|
Quote:
|
|
09-21-2006, 06:29 PM | #91 |
FlipFrame
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 471
|
I know your response answers me indirectly as well...but you didn't reply to me along with Trep.
|
09-21-2006, 07:58 PM | #92 | |
merely human
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 22,309
|
(((((EvoG)))))
Quote:
Prejudice, no matter what context it's in, will always be there. Often times the only way to reach 'tightened' gamers is by having them sit down and sample the actual game. We've had people here who almost always play only adventure games, and they get wind of a game that's so extraordinary in how it uses the elements traditionally associated with adventure games - Beyond Good & Evil, Silent Hill 2, ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, Okami - and sample it and fall madly in love with it. Conversely there were other hardcore gamers who had abandoned the adventure game genre because they got disgusted, sick, and tired of seeing the same '2D-p&c-slider-puzzle-Templar-April-Ryan-wannabe-mediocre-quality-Myst-clone' over and over and moved on to other kinds of games that incorporated adventure game elements and even arguably made them far, far better than most standard adventure games today. Then Indigo Prophecy came out, and they were ecstatic - finally, a NEW kind of adventure game for them. But to get back to your question, personally I don't know if you could even puncture through the blinders of the more conservative adventure gamers. It would have to take a series of beautifully designed, highly successful 'sympathetic' games to win them over to being more open about trying things they've never done before. It would have to be an extended trend. By sympathetic, I mean games that begin on a foundation of adventure game elements - story, character, exploration, discovery, and intellectually challenging situations (not necessarily puzzles) - what we've always loved about the genre, but conceived, designed and executed in the most inventive, creative, imaginative, and wonderously original ways possible. And I think games like Bioshock and Okami are these games. But the 'tightened' adventure gamers will only filter these games through their prejudices and refuse to play them, making excuses such as "oh, it's a 3D game", or "direct control? forget it!". Oh, before I forget, I think this is true for other kinds of gamers. As EvoG stated, many hardcore RPG gamers are the same way.
__________________
platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs | gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii | blog: a space alien | book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris | games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain | sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer | music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake | twitter: a_space_alien Last edited by Intrepid Homoludens; 09-21-2006 at 08:14 PM. |
|
09-22-2006, 01:05 AM | #93 | |
capsized.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,534
|
Quote:
Nowadays you see people bitching about Oblivion being nothing like Fallout, PS:T, etc. Yes, I've seen people complaining exactly about that, since, hey, with the lack of any deeper character interaction that surely can't be an RPG™. Never mind that the Elder Scrolls series never worked that way. Doesn't matter, it's not a real RPG™. Is that a bad thing? And who the hell cares about that anyway? Labels can be so stupid. Bloody fools. Next time you visit these forums, put this link in your sig: http://www.thief-thecircle.com/darkproj/manifesto.html. Ace stuff. Ace, ace, ace.
__________________
Look, Mr. Bubbles...! |
|
09-22-2006, 02:08 AM | #94 |
Dungeon Master
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,152
|
It's great how the topic about a game that has little to do with AGs somehow turned into the same old drivel about how AGs need to change and how the more conservative crowd wouldn't know a good game if they sat on it. And all this based on the negative opinion that people supposedly would have stated if asked about Bioshock.
To paraphrase Voltaire: If there were no "purists", you guys would have to invent them.
__________________
What's happening? Wh... Where am I? |
09-22-2006, 05:03 AM | #95 |
The Reggienator
|
It's kind of funny now that I think about it, when Levine in that video said in the beginning that they are tired of all the old fps clichés.
Then I started thinking about one fps cliche that has always been there, and seems to still be in BioShock too... All the enemies from the same type look the same. I get it why Big Daddies and Little Sisters look alike because those are genetically manufactured clones, I think? But for example those women that have the ability to jump to the roof and throw some stuff at you, why do they all seem to look the same. it would be great to finally have every enemy look different and have a different looking physique.
__________________
"The old standby, that never got old in the first place. We come back to them weekly, nightly, for hours at a time--and they always deliver. They are pure, timeless, and often taken for granted." - Nick Breckon - Shacknews My gamesale list *updated 26.8.2007* Hey, dear people please buy my games, I need money to conquer Europe! Or do something similar. |
09-22-2006, 05:20 AM | #96 | ||
Super Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,907
|
Quote:
Quote:
Those gamers who have moved on, those that have tried new games, I'm glad you've found something for yourself. I have tried some new types of games as well but please don't have an elitist attitude (which is what it comes off as at times) because you have moved on. Last edited by Melanie68; 09-22-2006 at 05:37 AM. |
||
09-22-2006, 08:31 AM | #97 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 192
|
Quote:
I am an "action" gamer but it's good to to play something where you don't have to worry about death sequences or platforming. Something where you sit back, mouse in one hand, and just enjoy the story unfold. Of course most of the puzzles in these games piss me off and I know it's all part of the challenge, but some of these puzzles are really "out there." Shamefully, I admit I have used walkthroughs (but who hasn't).
__________________
"...And I don't want the world to see me 'Cause I don't think that they'd understand When everything's made to be broken I just want you to know who I am..." "IRIS"-GOO GOO DOLLS |
|
09-22-2006, 08:43 AM | #98 |
Epsilon-Minus Semi-Moron
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 863
|
RPGcodex is nothing compared to No Mutants Allowed. Yikes.
__________________
If there's one thing you can say About Mankind There's nothing kind about man |
09-22-2006, 08:53 AM | #99 | |
merely human
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 22,309
|
Quote:
I think the last adventure game I seriously had fun with in terms of puzzles was Gabriel Knight 3 (they were well integrated into the story, and even when questionably out of context, they still at least had a couple of threads connected to the narrative). Ironically that was the first adventure game I ever played. But interestingly I played marvelous games like KOTOR and Silent Hill 2 mostly for their adventure game elements, not necessarily for the action. And I think their way of doing it trumps most modern adventure games.
__________________
platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs | gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii | blog: a space alien | book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris | games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain | sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer | music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake | twitter: a_space_alien |
|
09-22-2006, 10:25 AM | #100 | ||
is not wierd
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,148
|
Quote:
Quote:
The little girls should also look different. If they all look the same, I think the impact of killing them would be really diminished... I hope they work to create some different models while they're still working on it. |
||