[SnorkleCat]

Okay.... I have to bring this up.

I am rather new to games (been playing just this year)....I'm also a writer/journalist and part of a start up games company called Screwy Lightbulb...I have had my reasons for disliking 'gaming culture' in the past...too boy oriented, puerile, violent, nasty stereotypes, mysogeny etc...but I've found a new and unexpected passion in adventure games, and I'm glad I decided to give them a try. I'm also very excited to enter the industry and work on these games myself.

BUT!

I am finding that the quality of script writing is in general very poor, and that's a disappointment. I thought that a strong and compelling story was a necessary element in an adventure game! If this is correct, then why is the bar apparently so low, especially when other production values are so high? Keepsake is a good example of this sad but common phenomenon; I loved the art work, and I loved the puzzles. In fact, I very much enjoyed the game....but the dialogue and writing? Awful. The fact that the two main characters spoke (and sounded) like Canadian mall rats somewhat detracted from the fantasy setting, and made the story, by default, dull. Keepsake isn't alone. I was underwhelmed by the writing in Scratches, Paradise, Ankh, and plenty of others. On the other hand, I liked Grim Fandango. I don't know if it was the writing or Tony Plana's excellent acting, but I found Grim Fandango to be delightful and engrossing. Fable, on the other hand was NOT, and I'd like to strangle Quickthorpe with my bare hands.

Cliches are mostly to blame. It's like watching a movie filled with silly explosions and one liners. Lots of game scripts seem to be riddled with cliches, and it makes me think that studios spend all their time, money, and love on graphics and just assume that any fool acquainted with the alphabet can write a great script. Not so. It's a skill and a talent like any other, and I don't believe that the interactive industry should exempt itself from high standards. As long as it does, games will be a self limiting medium.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think game writing should or could be better? Does it matter? Does game script quality affect your enjoyment of the game?

[insane_cobra]

Welcome, and looky here.

Be aware, however, that writing for games differs greatly from writing for non-interactive media. It's important that the script is not too rigid as not to interfere with gameplay (which is, after all, the most important component of any game). Many people also like their actions and choices to matter and to change the way story unfolds, however slightly. That also makes things more complicated.

But having said that, I agree with you, the quality of writing in most games is in dire need of improvement.

[MoriartyL]

The importance of story depends on the type of game. For an adventure I believe that story is the most important job. All other "ingredients" (exploration, puzzles, interface, etc.) should serve the story. I don't know why there aren't adventures with better stories- I suspect that the writers just aren't very good. Or maybe it's that adventures aren't seen as a respectable storytelling medium like novels- I really don't know.

Anyway, that's just adventures. But if we were take, say, a platformer, the story just gets in the way. If you have to sit through a cutscene, you get impatient. Even if it were a brilliant plot (and it never is), it wouldn't belong there. Same goes for racing games, simulations, action games, etc. In all these cases, story is completely expendable. I don't want to be forced to sit through a story here.

So if we're talking about where the quality of writing should go, we need to distinguish between Forms. Which types of games need good stories? Adventures, RPGs, and complex games like Metal Gear Solid. These all are too reliant on cliches.

So here's how it needs to go: Story-driven games absolutely should be (and need to be) more creative, while other games should ideally eliminate story entirely. I doubt this will happen, though.

[SSH]

You think the writing in games is poor: the writing in reviews is even worse!

[MoriartyL]

You know what, I think I do know why the writing is so poor. The problem is that these interactive art forms are so young. University courses in game creation almost always come from the programming side. New game designers aren't novelists, they're engineers. And no one sees the problem here because no one has even figured out what any type of game is yet. Games are still viewed as commercial software, not art. (This won't change any time soon.) Very few people (and fewer executives) recognize that any of these types of games are good for stories, so they don't care about it.

The Industry is young and unhealthy. Eventually, the people in charge will start to understand what they're working with. I estimate it'll take somewhere between twenty and thirty years. Then we'll get good stories. And not just good stories- those non-story-driven games will start making sense too.

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

I don't know why there aren't adventures with better stories- I suspect that the writers just aren't very good.

There's a difference between a game with boring, unimaginative plot and bad writing. A game dealing with a cliched matter can still have excellent writing. Why is the quality of writing bad? Because it's usually game designers who do the writing, and being a good designer doesn't automatically mean she knows how to write.

On the other hand, professional writers rarely understand the nuances of writing for games, most notably that story mustn't hinder gameplay. So until there are enough people formally educated in writing for games (another problem: who will teach them? designers are rarely good writers, writers rarely understand games), we may not see many advances in that area.

Anyway, that's just adventures. But if we were take, say, a platformer, the story just gets in the way. If you have to sit through a cutscene, you get impatient. Even if it were a brilliant plot (and it never is), it wouldn't belong there.

Um, Psychonauts?

And cutscenes are not the only way to tell a story, that's exactly the assumption writers with little knowledge of games would make (I'm not saying you're one of those, of course ).

Same goes for racing games, simulations, action games, etc. In all these cases, story is completely expendable. I don't want to be forced to sit through a story here.

Again, you can play through a story there, you don't have to sit through it. Many sports games today incorporate some story elements into their career modes. Those are always utilitarian in nature, but they create stories nevertheless. And people seem to want them. A good story can always enhance a game, it gives meaning to what you're doing. The same goes for action games and most other genres.

[LimpingFish]

Simply answer:

Poor writers.

[Spiwak]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Um, Psychonauts?

And cutscenes are not the only way to tell a story, that's exactly the assumption writers with little knowledge of games would make (I'm not saying you're one of those, of course ).

Thank you.

[Jayel]

Quality writing isn't what sells games.
unfortunately.

[SnorkleCat]

So... it sounds like I'm not alone in thinking that the writing could improve...I wonder then what the problem is. Are developers unaware that most of them lack the talent to produce a script good enough to be released? Or do they know this and just lack the resources to hire enough specialized staff? I can certainly understand the latter and it is unfortunate.

Still, I do think writing should be as important as art...those of us who are not artists wouldn't dream of scrawling our own backdrops and stick figure heroes presuming that players would find them adequate....perhaps studios should start looking at the writing in the same way; an art department, a writing department , and a programming department. If there is enough collaboration, the job should get done, and each department would understand the medium better.

I do agree that the medium is still under development and there are many things left to try. Also, I'm sure that there is a way to balance game play and story, but it will take experimentation, which some old school gamers might not like. It is hard to try new things if players constantly say "It just doesn't get better than Monkey Island! Now there was a REAL adventure game!!" I mean, some people panned Grim Fandango just because its interface was unfamilar, and I've read some editorial rants that say that Myst was responsible for the "death of the genre"..which seems a bit melodramatic to me.

Also, let us not forget that NEW players can be recruited by good game experiences. I'm one such person. Last year, I'd have died from shame to admit that I had played a computer game.. I had assumed all games to be low brow and teen boy oriented.

I know that there are lots of other people out there who would happily spend their money on games, but currently do not because the quality is perceived to be low, filled with stereotypes, and /or not created for their demographic. Unfortunately at this time, they may be justified in feeling this way.

[Spiwak]

As a whole you might be right, but there certainly are games out there coming out every year that do have great writing. Adventures, for the most part, aren't them though for the moment. But just within the last couple of years there have been a few great RPGs with great stories (I'm looking at the Knights of the Old Republic series and Bloodlines, can't vouch for Fable) and even, say, platformers of the caliber of Psychonauts and Sly have good stories and more particularly very interesting, engaging characters. It's a shame that as a whole the video game industry doesn't consider writing more important, but there are still developers out there that focus on the story just as much as the gameplay or the graphic engine, although they aren't the norm for sure. As Ron Gilbert said in that Gamespot interview, one day the technology will plateau and at that point people will look at the writing and things not associated with the technology, with a little more regard. He also predicted that'd be in about 25 years, so.....

[Jackal]

Originally Posted by LimpingFish

Simply answer:

Poor writers.

I don't normally pick on people's typos, but I loved the irony in this one.

Since adventures were mentioned, I should point out that one of the problems is that they're often (such as Keepsake) written in languages other than English. So translation also needs to share some of the blame.

That said, I certainly also agree with the general lack of writing skill in games. Mind you, I think there's a lack of writing skill in general. A lot of people are competent with words, so everyone thinks they can do it. Far fewer are actually quality writers, and fewer still are capable of quality creative writing. And yeah, of those, not many are focused on gaming, and even then, meshing story and gameplay is still a learning process at this stage.

There may be a rare individual who can do both, but I think that writers and designers are both required, who then need to work together. SnorkleCat, your idea of "departments" interacting is basically what I'm suggesting, although hiring the right people still requires a level of expertise that few have, so I think it still ends up being a crapshoot in many cases.

[samIamsad]

Originally Posted by cobra

On the other hand, professional writers rarely understand the nuances of writing for games, most notably that story mustn't hinder gameplay. So until there are enough people formally educated in writing for games (another problem: who will teach them? designers are rarely good writers, writers rarely understand games), we may not see many advances in that area.

There are some decent game designers/writers, but they're a raaaaare breed indeed.

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

Same goes for racing games, simulations, action games, etc. In all these cases, story is completely expendable. I don't want to be forced to sit through a story here.

Mafia? System Shock? Bioforge? Star Craft? No One Lives Forever? Max Payne? Need I go on?

[SCRUGAtes13]

SnorkleCat, i believe that the script is one of the most important qualities of a game. but concerning adventure games i believe it's the lack of informatives that lead players through 'the next step' that is more in crisis than the plot/narrative and/or dialogues/monologues.

there are a few adventure games that have been ruined completely by the script (FARENHEIT) and others that have had such good scripts they really set new standards in terms of original ideas in particular genres (e.g.monkey island, obviously).

but even games like Still Life, which has recieved harsh criticism especially regarding the ending still has a great script and it cannot be denied that it is very professional.

in conclusion, i think most people really care about puzzles, events, characters, scenarios, etc, in an adventure game, where as personally a script to me is just as important.

[MoriartyL]

Originally Posted by samIamsad

Mafia? System Shock? Bioforge? Star Craft? No One Lives Forever? Max Payne? Need I go on?

Now just a minute. When did I say no games other than adventures and RPGs had good stories? Sure, there are platformers and strategy games and action games and so on and so on with good stories. But they don't need them. If any of these games are not good without the stories, then they're just not good. What I said is that the story is expendable. And so it is. A good action game is a good action game, regardless of what sort (if any) of story it has.

[Kurufinwe]

Originally Posted by Jackal

Since adventures were mentioned, I should point out that one of the problems is that they're often (such as Keepsake) written in languages other than English. So translation also needs to share some of the blame.

Actually, when I played Keepsake in French, the dialogue was so bad that I thought it must have originally been written in English.

(but your general point still stands, of course)

[MoriartyL]

Is translation such an issue these days? There are lots of good translators out there.

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

A good action game is a good action game, regardless of what sort (if any) of story it has.

But they're much better with stories. Half-Life would only be a half-game without its story. Halo without a story is just a nice shooter with some unique gameplay twists, not a sprawling epic with millions of obsessed fans.

[Kurufinwe]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

Is translation such an issue these days? There are lots of good translators out there.

After playing both the French and English versions of Paradise and The Secrets of Da Vinci recently, I can say it still is. A lot.

[After a brisk nap]

I think the question is a distraction. The quality of writing is not the biggest (or even one of the biggest) problems with adventure games.