The Gamer As Artiste
This was in the New York Times today:
The Gamer As Artiste-New York Times, Dec. 4, 2005 Quote:
Read and discuss if you want. :) |
I'm not sure that I've been that emotionally affected by games. There have been a couple of points in some of them, when I was younger, that made me unhappy (normally when a character has died), but I've never really looked at them like that.
Maybe they're just failing to engage me at that level. |
You don't need emotion to make art. Look at Electroplankton. Emotion can also be pulled from you, not given on a platter.
|
"A work of art which did not begin in emotion is not art." ~ Paul Cézanne
|
That's not necessarily true. Art isn't quotations either.
|
But surely Art without emotion is just dry and functional.
like a road sign - Not art just functional. For it to be art it must generate emotion. |
Is something art if it produces anger, or sadness? IE, a well-captured photograph of people in a concentration camp? Or is that just good journalism?
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
I'm not exactly sure what we're trying to say by use of the word "art" in relation to games, but I'm not sure that our current definition works. |
|
Being the art historian, I really liked the use of the Cézanne quote... but realize that although it's a great quote, it's not necessarily true even in the context of the history of art.
SJH is right in that you can create something technical and functional, and it would still be considered art. Take many sculptures in antiquity for example: They may or may not evoke an emotional response from the viewer, but some of those statues weren't created with the intention of being "emotional". Architecture is perhaps the best example, in that it is created with function in mind rather than emotion, and yes architecture is considered art in the art world. For some people, though, architecture can bring about some emotional responses but my point is... it usually does not begin in emotion. To understand Cézanne's quote you have to take into account the period that he lived in, and the purpose of the artists during that era. Artists during his time are starting to be more concerned with "feeling" and expressing themselves through their medium. This does not hold true, however, for all artists throughout history. |
Quote:
|
I agree. Games writers suck. :frown:
|
Would you say Killer7 is art? It clearly uses artistic expression as a primary design element.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
I would like to chime in to agree with Trep and SamIAmSad. The vast majority of writers for games are terrible. Worst of all, many of them believe they are actually talented... I saw the making of Halo 2 and the writer himself seemed to think he had written some sort of great work that would go down in history...
|
I think there needs to be a strong line drawn between "games as art" and "art in games". I think some people confuse the two.
Putting some cinematic scenes in a game and hiring a good script writer will never make a game artistic. It will only make them a lot more enjoyable. |
Very true. I also think people are mixing up the term art with good writing, which is only part of what makes up a game. I'd argue that the more artistic games, like Ico or its recent sequel, are more abstract in plot. Something like Vib Ribbon or Electroplankton are more artistic, to me, than Silent Hill.
|
Quote:
Still, a lot of games out there are very intensive in the way of expository dialogue as opposed to telling the story more visually in a visual medium. That's already a flaw. That flaw is made even larger by the fact that most of the writers can't write in the first place. It's a double whammy of badness. They can't write, yet they write too much. That's what I meant. |
Quote:
Look, what I've done when I tried to do the Trep-(quote yourself)-thing. :frown: There goes my post. :( Quote:
|
I think people spend too much time trying to make gaming an "art form" and not enough time asking for games that are fun to play, well designed and interesting. Which is why I hate the "Are games art?" discussion, because I don't feel that art is what I got into gaming for.
|
Quote:
That said, I think both the Longest Journey and Syberia are awful examples of games as art. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
"In a way, I find his games (Benoit Sokal's) to be similar to the Myst series. The way his puzzles are always so tied into the very fabric of the game's story and characterization, particularly in Syberia, and the way that the locations themselves reveal pieces of a certain character's personality or interests. In the Myst games it's Atrus or his two sons; in Syberia it is Hans Voralberg." And also: "The puzzles feel very natural, they are very much a part of the world, and more specifically, very much a part of Hans Voralberg. As you explore, you learn more and more about Hans, his creations, and his dreams. Kate may be the character you play, and she gets plenty of development via cel phone conversations with people back home (her boss, her mother, her boyfriend, and her best friend), but in the end this game is the story of Hans. It is the story of Anna Voralberg as well. The story of automatons. The story of a dream to see something that may not even exist. It is a story of faith, and a story of love." I didn't think any of the "pretty images" were only there to be pretty. Everything served a purpose. For a game I thought it was very well done. Far better than The Longest Journey, with its endless expository dialogue... |
Quote:
Remove the distractions of the visuals (and music as well for that matter) from your mind and ask yourself what games bring to the table that movies, literature, stage plays, operas, etc., don't. What is the brush that games paint with? The answer rings rather hollow at this point, doesn't it? If games remain nothing more than a "container" for other arts, then I am sorry to say, they will never become art themselves and a game that explores interactivity to such a shallow depth as Syberia does, is about as far from "game as art" as can be possible. |
Quote:
|
< checks out Bastich's av >
:9~ Love your new look. |
Quote:
It's kind of like bringing a movie camera to a stage play, recording it from your seat, and calling it an artistic film because the play had a great thought-provoking story, great acting, a wonderfully immersive score, and great effects and backdrops. The reality is that such a recording, no matter how great the content, would be utterly devoid of artistic merit as a film as it doesn't express anything in the language of film. Likewise with Syberia as a game. The same argument holds true for just about every other adventure game as well. |
Quote:
Now, to be honest, I see your point perfectly, I just don't agree with it. What is the artistic merit of radio? It's all sound effects, voices, and music. We can get all of that by turning off a TV screen and leaving the audio on. But radio, music, whatever is still its own medium even though all of its attributes are seen in another mediums. Videogames take it a step further, in a sense. Like film did with music and stage plays. Videogames take all of the attributes of film, and make them interactive. Some in a more limited respect than others, but by giving the viewer/player CHOICES or allowing them to solve puzzles to progress the story, they are already doing something that other art forms do not. I agree that videogames are an imperfect art form at this point and most of them are far, far from being art. I'm simply saying the medium itself is one where art can be created. I agree with Squarejaw that two of the best pure pieces of art in gaming are ICO and Shadow of the Colossus. They are both very interactive, they do the "game" thing quite well, and they also excel in the areas of art direction and imagination. They are complete packages, so to speak. |
Video games are somewhere between the pure entertainment and higher aspirations, kinda like movies.
Cinema is often referred to as the 7th art, and yet Fast and Furious exists. Therefore, even if games like Counter Strike couldn't obviously (in my opinion) not be considered as art, the all genre could. Myself, I see many AGs as being pieces of art. Riven, Myst 4, Obsidian, The Neverhood, The Last Express, Grim Fandango, Syberia and many others obviously have higher aspirations than "mere" entertainment (or fun, if you will). In fact, I might go so far as saying that that's how I would define art: when the intention is to do something more. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
And Loom. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
So I try to come up with a way to use GK2 as an example without falling into this. Attempt failed. :D |
Quote:
Aside from that I agree with most things said in this game. In order for games to really move the player, they need seriously improve the quality of the writing. There are only a couple of games out there that are noteworthy for their excellent writing, and most of them are (not coincidentally) RPG's. The last time a game actually moved me a lot was the final choice in KOTOR1, where I was forced to desert some of the sidekicks I'd grown attached to during the game because of my alignment. |
|
Quote:
I guess hell hath no fury like a gamer scorned... |
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:10 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Design & Logo Copyright ©1998 - 2017, Adventure Gamers®.
All posts by users and Adventure Gamers staff members are property of their original author and don't necessarily represent the opinion or editorial stance of Adventure Gamers.