[squarejawhero]

Perhaps you should read through your posts a bit more before posting? Because that's how it reads to me, when you state "a slow, soon-to-be-outdated machine what will only run a few shiny, uninteresting (to me) action games". BTW When you look at the x-box, it can still hold its own reasonably well, so it aint THAT slow, particularly when most people seem to have computers that can only just run games to that calibre now, unless you count the middling-to-hardcore PC audience. Even a PC gamer like Trep has a middling computer, and mine is on the brink of being outmoded despite being reasonably up-to-date.

I updated mine about a year ago to a standard able to play the latest games, and now it struggles with games like FEAR or the new Empires even though its on middle options. It's to be expected. With consoles, developers work TO a sepcifcation and squeeze as much out of it as they can, particularly to the end of its life. Some of the stuff they've pulled out of the creaking PS2 (which has had a long run, thinking about it) in terms of Collosus, as an example, and the things you see in Gods of War on Xbox show they're still capable of some brilliant tricks when the programmers begin relying on ingenuity rather than power. This happens at the end of EVERY console life cycle if they die "naturally" (unlike the DC).

In the end, your argument is kind of like "graphics and power don't matter but they do" to an extent. Which I don't get.

[seebaruk]

I agree with SJH here, I've had an xbox for 2 years now and it's been well worth every penny. To say that consoles only have mindless action games is very unfair, the xbox has lots of great adventure games, RPGs, etc. some of which aren't available for PC. Admittedly some of the xbox-only titles are later released on PC (e.g. Fable) but quite a few aren't (such as project zero/fatal frame).

In quite a few instances, the PC releases of a game have also been buggy and require a high-end system, whereas the console versions run great, albeit with lesser graphics on older systems. And backwards compatibility means there is a huge library of games available for the likes of the playstation.

Plus you can get light guns for consoles, which kick ass

Each to his own though, I buy xbox games and PC games in equal measure. I prefer the PC for FPS's, so much easier with a mouse.

[Rayvielle]

VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!


Sorry you didn't get your 360 mate. I hope it finds its way to you somehow before Christmas, or if not, soon after.

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by squarejawhero

Perhaps you should read through your posts a bit more before posting? Because that's how it reads to me, when you state "a slow, soon-to-be-outdated machine what will only run a few shiny, uninteresting (to me) action games". BTW When you look at the x-box, it can still hold its own reasonably well, so it aint THAT slow, particularly when most people seem to have computers that can only just run games to that calibre now, unless you count the middling-to-hardcore PC audience. Even a PC gamer like Trep has a middling computer, and mine is on the brink of being outmoded despite being reasonably up-to-date.

I updated mine about a year ago to a standard able to play the latest games, and now it struggles with games like FEAR or the new Empires even though its on middle options. It's to be expected. With consoles, developers work TO a sepcifcation and squeeze as much out of it as they can, particularly to the end of its life. Some of the stuff they've pulled out of the creaking PS2 (which has had a long run, thinking about it) in terms of Collosus, as an example, and the things you see in Gods of War on Xbox show they're still capable of some brilliant tricks when the programmers begin relying on ingenuity rather than power. This happens at the end of EVERY console life cycle if they die "naturally" (unlike the DC).

In the end, your argument is kind of like "graphics and power don't matter but they do" to an extent. Which I don't get.

As for your first point, see bold part above.

Otherwise, Trep said that I wasn't an intelligent gamer, which I answered by explaining why I don't have any interest in owning a console.
As for the "slow" part, note the smiley, which shows that I was exagerating on purpose (even though I often find console - read PS1 and PS2 and XBox - loading times too long, compared to PC loading times).

[Jeysie]

Originally Posted by footawn

despite the fact that i never actually worked a day there, i doubt anyone is actually missing out on anything by NOT working at gamestop.

what was i thinking when i applied for that job?

<shudder>

Heh. Actually, I worked at a local Babbage's for a time (which is what GameStop used to be, IIRC). While it was a retail job, and by definition kinda sucky, on the whole it wasn't bad. In fact, I even rather liked it. Second best retail job I had. (First best was working at Toys R Us.)

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Ninth

As for your first point, see bold part above.

Otherwise, Trep said that I wasn't an intelligent gamer, which I answered by explaining why I don't have any interest in owning a console.

Oh bullshit, Ninth. THIS is what I said:

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

My sympathies.

My momma raised an intelligent gamer who knows of the options available to him.

Where is it, by me, stated - or even implied - that you are not an intelligent game, huh?

And yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with squaresie (thanks, mate). And to be quite blunt, Ninth, I pick up a current of snobbery in your sentiments on consoles. As both seebaruk and squaresie pointed out, there are emphatic strengths and weakness to both consoles and PC. Particularly of importance are the different kinds of intelligent people who play one or the other or BOTH - physicists, writers, biologists, social workers, grad students, designers, artists, CEOs, and on and on.

As for the "slow" part, note the smiley, which shows that I was exagerating on purpose (even though I often find console - read PS1 and PS2 and XBox - loading times too long, compared to PC loading times).

I dunno WHAT console games you've played or even if you've played enough of them to get a sense, but most console games take an average of 30 seconds to load (to around 45 for really demanding games). Being both a PC and console gamer, I can tell you now that some PC games I've played can often take at least 1 minute. It depends on your hardware and whatever background programs you're running. With a console you're almost always assured that it will run, because there are no other programs and configurations to interfere.

[SoccerDude28]

OK a "fair" comparison of console to PC gaming
PC Gaming:

Advantages:
1- 25 years of bw compatibility and the biggest library of games of any platform. (Granted some will not run without patches or external programs like DosBox, but you can always pick up a 486 for 50 bucks on ebay and install DOS on it )
2- Mouse/keyboard: So far, it is the best controlling mechanism for some types of games like FPS'es and RTS'es.
3- Free Mods: Some games can have infinite replayibility value because of the number of mods available for them.
4- Free online multi-player: Lots of games have multi-player online support and it is free. All you need is a broadband connection
5- Will always lead the pack in technology: Maybe not this year, but in 3 years, the 360 will look "outdated" compared to the top end PC.
6- More experimental types of games: You can never get a Darwinia or the niche adventure games like Bone on a console because of the costs associated with making them. PC's are independent developers' platform of choice.
7- Cheaper games: Most PC ports are 10 or even 20 dollars cheaper than their console brothers. Main reason is no royalties to the console manufacturer.
8- Steam: I know a lot of people hate Steam, but a service that will provide Darwinia, Half Life and Sin Episodes with more to come is really promising.

Disadvantages
1- Hardware Price: That's the biggest turn off in PC gaming. The ridiculous prices of graphics cards has alienated a lot of PC enthusiasts and developers.
2- Bugs, and Compatibility problems: Because of the diversity of hardware, A lot of games are buggy when they hit retail. It is annoying that patches now are a fact of life.
3- Fewer and Fewer games as time goes on: A lot of console games are becoming exclusive to consoles, or the publishers are not seeing enough profitibility on PC's to make ports.
4- Newbie unfriendly: PC's can be newbie unfriendly due to some games expecting you to tamper with advanced settings.
5- Drivers: How sucky is it to install the latest driver from NVIDIA, just to know that it screwed up Far Cry while fixing Half Life 2.

Consoles
Advantages:
1- Perfect for you Mr. Couch potatoe : Perfect to play on a couch, lying down, while your significant other is on top of you.
2- More exclusive AAA games: Perfect Dark Zero, Mario, Shadow of the Colossus, ICO, Metal Gear Solid 4, Resident Evil 5, some AAA games that you can never play on a PC.
3- No need to upgrade: Hardware will work for the lifetime of the console without need to shed any dollars on upgrades.
4- BW compatibility: Depends on the platform, but most consoles are bw compatible. PS3 will play PS2 and PS games, and Rev will play almost every Nintendo game ever made.
5- Gamepad: Much better for some types of games like high twitch 3rd person action games, Platforming games and Fighting games.
6- Good online support: This is mainly for the XBOX platform. Excellent online support.
7-Cheaper hardware: Hardware much cheaper than a brand new PC.
8- No patches: You are a 100% 90% sure the game will play out of the box without any patches or bugs.
9- Newbie friendly: Playing a game is as simple as putting the game in the console
10- HD enabled: For us HD owners

Disadvantages
1- Lack of harddrive: For some of the consoles. This forces developer to use the infamously frustrating checkpoint system (which works in some cases but is bad as hell in others).
2- More expensive games: A console game us 10 or 20 dollars more expensive than a PC game
3- No mouse/keyboard: Honestly this must be the number one reason that I will always buy PC games. FPS'es with a controller SUCK.
4- You have to buy all 3 of them to get the best bang for the buck: Since there are 3 consoles on the market, you really need to buy all 3 of them to enjoy ICO, Jade Empire, and Legend of Zelda.
5- Very expensive to develop for: And thus, more of the niche genres like AG's are not very available on a console
6- A good HDTV costs more than $2000


This is my rundown of what's the advantages of each system. Seriously you can't diss one or another. Each has its weakness and/or strengths so it's a matter of preference.

[RLacey]

A couple of quick modifications:

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

5- Gamepad: Much better for some types of games like high twitch 3rd person action games, Platforming games and Fighting games.

8- No patches: You are a 100% sure the game will play out of the box without any patches or bugs.

It's pretty easy to get a PC gamepad, and I've never understood the argument that says that PC gamers should have some kind of right not to ever pick one up and yet expect to play all the same games .

It's not true that there aren't any bugs. Sure, there are far less, but some creep through, and they're then unfixable. Like the misspelt level "Felicity" in Perfect Dark...

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by RLacey

A couple of quick modifications:



It's pretty easy to get a PC gamepad, and I've never understood the argument that says that PC gamers should have some kind of right not to ever pick one up and yet expect to play all the same games .

It's not true that there aren't any bugs. Sure, there are far less, but some creep through, and they're then unfixable. Like the misspelt level "Felicity" in Perfect Dark...

See number 8. I actually realized that while re-reading it so I fixed it right away.

As far as gamepad support goes, I totally agree with you. But the support of gamepads for some games is horrendous. I've had some new games where the game will not recognize the right thumb stick, rendering the camera static, and thus the game uplayable But maybe 90% of the games I recently played like ultimate spiderman, King Kong, Prince of Persia, Grand Theft Auto San Andreas etc.. have excellent gamepad support. I hope MS'es controller is a step forward in gamepad support for the PC.

Oh and some of these points will be obsoleted with the arrival of Vista (like Newbie unfriendly), but they are worth mentioning for now.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Soccsie

4- Newbie unfriendly: PC's can be newbie unfriendly due to some games expecting you to tamper with advanced settings.

I see this is a major impediment against snagging more novices to play games. Because the PC industry lacks consistent and highly enforced standardization, and because it's so f#&king complicated and intricate, many people are put off by it and just give up.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

I see this is a major impediment against snagging more novices to play games. Because the PC industry lacks consistent and highly enforced standardization, and because it's so f#&king complicated and intricate, many people are put off by it and just give up.

According to MS, Vista will offer the ability to just put in the CD and play the game without the need for an install so that should be a step forward. Plus the games will be visible right off the start menu.

[AFGNCAAP]

That's a fair list, SD. I'd like to question one of your points, though:

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

Consoles
Advantages:
2- More exclusive AAA games: Perfect Dark Zero, Mario, Shadow of the Colossus, ICO, Metal Gear Solid 4, Resident Evil 5, some AAA games that you can never play on a PC.

Disadvantages
4- You have to buy all 3 of them to get the best bang for the buck: Since there are 3 consoles on the market, you really need to buy all 3 of them to enjoy ICO, Jade Empire, and Legend of Zelda.

Not only I think disadvantage #4 pretty much invalidates advantage #2, but I'd like to know what constitutes for an AAA title to you, because I believe the selection of brilliant PC-exclusive games is damn long.

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Oh bullshit, Ninth. THIS is what I said:



Where is it, by me, stated - or even implied - that you are not an intelligent game, huh?

The opposition between me saying that my momma raised a PC gamer and your answer that your momma raised an intelligent gamer implied that I wasn't an intelligent gamer, at least that's how I interpreted it. In any case, it doesn't matter, all I'm saying is that intelligence has nothing to do with this; it's a question of what kind of gamer you are.
There's almost nothing on a console that interests me, and I don't like gamepads nor playing on my TV, hence I've no reason to play console games.

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

And yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with squaresie (thanks, mate). And to be quite blunt, Ninth, I pick up a current of snobbery in your sentiments on consoles. As both seebaruk and squaresie pointed out, there are emphatic strengths and weakness to both consoles and PC. Particularly of importance are the different kinds of intelligent people who play one or the other or BOTH - physicists, writers, biologists, social workers, grad students, designers, artists, CEOs, and on and on.

I don't see where intelligent people enter the equation. The strengths of a console are useless to me, that's all.

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

I dunno WHAT console games you've played or even if you've played enough of them to get a sense, but most console games take an average of 30 seconds to load (to around 45 for really demanding games). Being both a PC and console gamer, I can tell you now that some PC games I've played can often take at least 1 minute. It depends on your hardware and whatever background programs you're running. With a console you're almost always assured that it will run, because there are no other programs and configurations to interfere.

I've played very few console games, and they all took too long to load. And of all the games I've purchased in ten years, only two or three won't work on my current PC.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Ninth

The opposition between me saying that my momma raised a PC gamer and your answer that your momma raised an intelligent gamer implied that I wasn't an intelligent gamer, at least that's how I interpreted it. In any case, it doesn't matter, all I'm saying is that intelligence has nothing to do with this; it's a question of what kind of gamer you are.
There's almost nothing on a console that interests me, and I don't like gamepads nor playing on my TV, hence I've no reason to play console games.

Well then I apologize, my dear, if you misIntrepid what I said.

I don't see where intelligent people enter the equation. The strengths of a console are useless to me, that's all.

Well why didn't you just say console gaming doesn't interest you, then?

I've played very few console games, and they all took too long to load. And of all the games I've purchased in ten years, only two or three won't work on my current PC.

Doesn't your PC need updating by now?

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Well then I apologize, my dear, if you misIntrepid what I said.

Miss Intrepid? That's an interesting notion.

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Well why didn't you just say console gaming doesn't interest you, then?

Beats me.

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Doesn't your PC need updating by now?

Well, I'm playing Callahan's Crosstime Saloon now, so no, I'm fine.