09-25-2005, 12:09 PM | #21 | ||||||
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Which is another reason why it's ridiculous to say that Kojima isn't original. Because each game in the series takes the story in a completely different direction. Every Metal Gear Solid game simply bleeds creativity. Quote:
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Besides, even if we're just talking about gameplay, I think MGS holds its own against Splinter Cell quite well. Quote:
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mag |
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09-25-2005, 12:51 PM | #22 | ||
FlipFrame
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SC, despite being a fun game to play, is not any more fun than MGS(or rather, MGS isn't any less fun than SC), but fails miserably in emotional impact in comparison. I get BOTH in MGS, and despite the whole nebulous arguments about how much games should be just games and how much narrative they should they have, when both are an option, why not exercise both? Quote:
You also ignored the rest of my commenting regarding the updated version of MGS3, which addresses issues you have strong feelings about. Cheers |
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09-25-2005, 01:59 PM | #23 | ||||||
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09-25-2005, 03:15 PM | #24 | |||
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mag |
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09-25-2005, 03:38 PM | #25 | |||
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MGS3 had a very cool climactic sequence, and a very cool ending that revealed the motives of the man (Big Boss) previously known in the series as just a villain. Does the ending make me more sympathetic to Big Boss and give the series a degree of complexity it never had before? Yes. But a real emotional impact? Like, some sort of powerful effect it had on me? I'm sorry, it just didn't. EDIT: By the way mag...with respect to our mutual hatred for the New England Patriots I would just like to say: DAMN IT! Last edited by Once A Villain; 09-25-2005 at 03:44 PM. |
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09-25-2005, 03:51 PM | #26 | |
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Except for the thing about the Patriots. Damn, I hate the Patriots! mag |
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09-25-2005, 03:56 PM | #27 | |
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You are wrong mag! That's all! The end. EDIT: Actually, you'll probably realize in a few hours that the reason for your nutty reaction is your sadness about the Steelers losing, but I still thought I'd have a little fun with it. |
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09-25-2005, 04:29 PM | #28 |
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We know what science is, don't we? And we know what fiction is. Put those together and you have Science Fiction. Fictive Science. Movies/books/games with stories that for the most part are based on science that doesn't really exist, but is made up. Therefore, Metal Gear Solid stories are pure science fiction.
And the ending of Metal Gear Solid 3 should touch every humans heart, no matter how cold you are. It's one of the best and most beautiful endings ever in a computer game. It was extremely well presented. I don't think I've ever been as close to shedding a tear for a videogame character than this. I can only think of the Aeris scene and the Final Fantasy X ending as close contenders. And of course the part in MGS2, with E.E. |
09-25-2005, 04:53 PM | #29 |
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Thank you, Crimson. Yes, science fiction can be set anywhere, any time. It can use real places, real events, real people, whatever. Pretty much, if it's fictional and it's based on some real or imagined science or technology, it's science fiction. That's why many scifi writers prefer the term "speculative fiction." A story is science fiction in addition to being an action, comedy, or mystery. The Terminator is an action film. It is also a science fiction film. Futurama is a comedy. It is also science fiction. The reason Metal Gear Solid reminds you of comic books and anime is because comic books and anime are usually science fiction. I've seen the term "science fiction" defined a lot of ways, but the only people I've seen define it as strictly as you have are crazed fanboys. Metal Gear Solid is very firmly in the scifi genre. Period. End of discussion. You can choose to believe otherwise if you wish, but you would be wrong.
Kojima's games have had a greater influence on the stealth game genre than any other game. Anyone who knows anything about the subject will say so, and it's not just because they want to be popular. It's because they know what they're talking about. Metal Gear created the genre. Metal Gear Solid redefined the genre. And Tenchu may have come out a few months earlier, but in terms of influence on the genre, Metal Gear Solid still wins. And I never said you had to cry at the ending to MGS3, but its emotional impact is undeniable. So there. You dragged it out of me. I just wasted valuable time explaining all the reasons why you're wrong about things you should have already known were wrong. Happy now? And the Patriots still suck. mag |
09-25-2005, 04:53 PM | #30 | |
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Back to the Future has sci/fi elements, yes. The Terminator, ditto. Independence Day, sure. But BTTF is a comedy, and The Terminator and Independence Day are better defined as action films. In that sense, MGS3 I believe classifies as action as well, or maybe drama. In terms of style, it's like a comic book or Japanese animation (despite all of the influence Hollywood films had on Kojima). But science fiction it's not. At least not in my view. I've never seen it as such. And please, not everyone will be touched by the ending of MGS3 just like there are many people who aren't moved at the end of Au Hasard Balthazar or City Lights (two films which, it has been argued, have extremely powerful endings). EDIT: How convenient. This works as my response to both of you. |
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09-26-2005, 04:44 AM | #31 | |
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Besides, even if we were to go by your book store example, Metal Gear Solid would be more likely to be placed in the science fiction section than anywhere else. MGS is undeniably science fiction. Just suck up the loss, and move on with your life. mag |
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09-26-2005, 07:21 AM | #32 | |
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Besides, as action adventure Metal Gear Solid is far more successful. As science fiction, it would be weak. In other words, it holds up much better against action stuff. Against sci/fi stuff it would likely be considered a joke since the sci/fi elements are about as intelligent as what we see in SpaceBalls (some of the ideas are actually fine, but even fictional science is demeaned by having villains that float around in a pack of hornets or exist as a ghost and challenge you in some sort of almost-afterlife). I would sooner call Metal Gear Solid a fantasy myself, which is the same way I feel about Star Wars. When I play Metal Gear games it's the action (including stealth) that stands out in the gameplay, with a lineup of comic book villains to mow down, and about ten hours of movie sequences that remind me mostly of anime with some elements of poor Hollywood film influences. That's what the MGS games are to me. Last edited by Once A Villain; 09-26-2005 at 07:57 AM. |
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09-26-2005, 08:05 AM | #33 |
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This is one of the most inane converstations I think I ever read here. I think I used the words 'pseduo-intellectual' in another thread recently, and I have to say perhaps I was too rash. I should've saved it for this thread right here.
Good luck with this guy mag, I feel for you. No really, I even have your emote ready... Cheers |
09-26-2005, 08:41 AM | #34 | |
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Last edited by Once A Villain; 09-26-2005 at 08:47 AM. |
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09-26-2005, 08:54 AM | #35 | |
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I'm not meaning to offer up an ad-hominem comment, but may I ask, honestly, are you in highschool or at the very least, no older than say 19-20? I'm being serious, so I can repsect the two grounds we are speaking from. Insight if you will. |
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09-26-2005, 09:00 AM | #36 | |
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Ok I'll make it easy on you. Why don't you explain how the Metal Gear Solid games are science fiction when the villains have nothing to do with science (even fictional science), and EVERYTHING to do with fantasy, comic books, anime, etc. Explain to me the science of a man flying around in a ball of hornets or a ghost that has a boss battle with you when you're between life and death. That's straight out of A Nightmare on Elm Street. Maybe MGS is horror. |
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09-26-2005, 09:04 AM | #37 | ||||
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If it was a movie, it probably would be listed under action, but that still doesn't mean it's not also science fiction. They're two completely different kinds of genres. Action has to do with the tone and pace. Scifi has more to do with plot and setting. Quote:
I don't really care what your opinion is or how many people you know who also don't know what science fiction means. You are wrong. Factually wrong. There is no reasonable definition of the term science fiction you can come up with that would not include Metal Gear Solid. Quote:
You can't judge the quality of a work of science fiction based on whether or not it can be used as a doctoral thesis. Metal Gear Solid isn't trying to educate the world about science, just as the majority of the scifi genre isn't trying to educate the world about science. It's trying to tell a story. It's simply using the scientific principles that audiences are already familiar with as a foundation. It's ridiculous to say that a story is a good action story but a weak science fiction story. It's either a good story, or it's not. If it's a good story, and it's science fiction, then it's a good science fiction story. Quote:
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09-26-2005, 09:16 AM | #38 | |||||
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To be honest though, I don't really care if you or EvoG or any other misled soul believes that Metal Gear Solid is some great work of science fiction. It doesn't bother me. I'm simply defending my position which is that of not seeing it as science fiction. |
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09-26-2005, 09:33 AM | #39 |
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Are we talking about MGS3 or the Metal Gear Solid series in general? Because, I must admit, MGS3 has much less sci/fi elements in it than for example MGS1 and 2. Both MGS1 and 2 are sci/fi action/stealth games. MGS3 is more of an action game with fantasy elements, set in a fictional past.
I also think you're mixing up the genres. A game can be a sci/fi action game. The Sci/fi explains the settings, the theme of the game. While the action part explains the gameplay. Metal Gear Solid 1/2 Genre: Action/stealth, Theme: Sci/Fi Shortened, it's a sci/fi action/stealth game. Metal Gear Solid 3 Genre: Action/stealth, Theme: Cold War/Historical Sci/Fi, Fantasy You know what I mean by now... |
09-26-2005, 09:36 AM | #40 | |
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This is where I stop talking to someone like you. You clearly misunderstood the intent of my last post and IMMEDIATELY became defensive and retaliated, resorting to attacking my character and intelligence, when I meant no malice. Whatever man, 25 years old and you still behave like this..bravo. |
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