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Old 06-07-2005, 06:05 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Fienepien
Having to look at severely distorted computer-generated *3D PUPPETS* in Still Life with hands as big as their head I know just what you mean. Can't think of anything less immersive! Give me real people anytime, and I promise I'll stand still and not try to walk around them while the're talking to me.
Wow you took what I said and turned it entirely backwards to mean the opposite of what I intended. Good work!
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Old 06-07-2005, 06:40 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Fienepien
Hmmmmm... if you put it like that...yes
And that's still more immersive for you than 3D characters?

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And I don't think the acting was all that bad in Myst IV. Not good either. Atrus is always awful and the absent Catherine used to be terrible too.
I was thinking more like Sirrus and Achenar, who were not helped any by the weird anachronistic dialogue. Oh, also the women from Serenia, a.k.a. the cast members of 1980s Fantasy Porn.
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Old 06-07-2005, 07:54 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by mszv
On the Uru controls, my personal theory is that Cyan didn't want to scare off people who didn't play other kinds of games so they implemented the controls with the arrows. I can't remember - couldn't you remap them to the more normal WASD setup? Then there was that panning, all of a sudden the camera moves around to give you a different view...
You were very limited in how you were able to remap the keys, but the main problem was the camera/control ratio. The camera was 'dynamically cinematically fixed' - that is, it followed the same idea as the Broken Sword 3 camera, where it interfered with total player movement and freedom. The camera didn't stay permanently behind the avatar, as in Max Payne (over-the-shoulder style), but at certain moments left the avatar to pan around. That in effect produced a bit of disorientation for us, the players. Now, with a gamepad a lot of that would have been alleviated - it's easier to control a 3D character in a constantly shifting view with an analog stick than it is with a keyboard/mouse setup.

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I have a theory that some adventure gamers aren't "in the game", all that much....
That's a very good theory. The gameplay in your standard adventure actually takes place in the player's mind, thus affecting the design and behaviour of standard adventures. Because the gameplay is more 'cerebral' instead of visceral not much emphasis needs to be paid to anything dynamic going on on the screen. That's how many adventure games have always been done.

However, it wasn't - and clearly shouldn't be - necessarily the only way to experience an adventure game. It's just this way happened to become the most prefered way. Somehow the possibility of such things as real time and some reflex oriented challenges was subsumed by the 'popularity' of strict puzzle preferences. What I'm interested to know is how that happened. Was it more economical to just design a puzzle into a game rather than introduce an action oriented obstacle, especially during the advent of real time 3D graphics?

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Getting back to Myst V. If you want Myst V to be in the tradition of oldtime Myst, then it's 2D and videos of actual people. It's sort of a cross between a movie and a game. You don't move when the characters are in your space. It's a combination of static screenshots, and a tiny little bit of animation, which sticks out because there is so darn little of it. Now I love Myst with a deep undying passion, but I just can't do that anymore in a new game. I want more stuff in the game to make the world seem alive, including how the game interacts with me. I also want to walk where I want to walk, and see what I want to see. Let me navigate the space.

All that "in the game", "not in the game" thing - that's a part of the whole adventure game genre. It drives me crazy, actually. I like it that the games proceed at a slow pace (I like that quite a lot, actually), but it drives me absolutely batty that, so much of the time you play an adventure game, you aren't really "in the game". I don't have an answer for that.
One person's idea of immersion is not necessarily another person's idea.
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Old 06-08-2005, 02:14 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Jake
Wow you took what I said and turned it entirely backwards to mean the opposite of what I intended. Good work!
No, I used your words to make a point. I've seen you do the same thing a lot. Your "good work!" post being a case in point.

Last edited by Fien; 06-08-2005 at 02:21 AM.
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Old 06-08-2005, 02:40 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by mszv
I have a theory that some adventure gamers aren't "in the game", all that much.
I would translate your "in the game" to "in the game world on the screen".
When I make a map, when I manipulate levers in Myst, when I look at static screens, I'm in the game. Where else would I be?

PS: I have a different theory: some 3D adventurers don't like puzzles all that much.

Last edited by Fien; 06-08-2005 at 04:02 AM.
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Old 06-08-2005, 02:52 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Duncan
And that's still more immersive for you than 3D characters?
I already answered that question.

Look... I'll play Myst V, I'll play Dreamfall and other new 3D games with novel gameplay because I'm an addicted adventure junkie. Even more so since I tried two RPGs recently and found the experience disappointing. I just know what I like and what I don't like. I bet you do too.

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I was thinking more like Sirrus and Achenar, who were not helped any by the weird anachronistic dialogue. Oh, also the women from Serenia, a.k.a. the cast members of 1980s Fantasy Porn.
Anachronistic? Didn't bother me, I don't even know what year it was in the game world. Being a non-native helps a lot too.
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Old 06-08-2005, 10:01 AM   #47
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@Trep - been reading your posts at JA+. All I gotta say is -

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Old 06-08-2005, 12:56 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by squarejawhero
@Trep - been reading your posts at JA+. All I gotta say is -

I've been reading the Myst thread at JA too. The comment about SJH fleeing to AG because everyone here agrees with him made me laugh. Obviously, the person who made that comment hasn't met FGM, Curt, and me.

FGM and curt are nice people so you don't have to really worry about them, Squaresie, but you'd better run if you run into me in a dark alley. I don't take to strangers and AGers who preech innovation. Run away! Run away!

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Old 06-08-2005, 01:08 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by gillyruless
I've been reading the Myst thread at JA too. The comment about SJH fleeing to AG because everyone here agrees with him made me laugh. Obviously, the person who made that comment hasn't met FGM, Curt, and me.
Actually, she has.
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Old 06-08-2005, 01:10 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by gillyruless
I don't take to strangers and AGers who preech innovation. Run away! Run away!
uh huh. You'd flirt with them, though.
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Old 06-08-2005, 01:21 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Fienepien
Actually, she has.
AGH! I'm BEING STALKED!

Teehee. Nice to know you haunt here too, actually. Why the name change, oh mysterious but fun arch-nemesis of mine?
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Old 06-08-2005, 01:36 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by squarejawhero
AGH! I'm BEING STALKED!

Teehee. Nice to know you haunt here too, actually. Why the name change, oh mysterious but fun arch-nemesis of mine?
No! no! I'm not HER! Not the person who said that about you, I mean. I'm me. Oh boy, I should keep my big trap shut. I thought you knew I'm good old Betje. Cross out "good"... (Fienepien is my oldest Internet name, Betje came later.)
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Old 06-08-2005, 01:58 PM   #53
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Fienepien is right - jenny100 knew me at GB when I was banned from there, and also knew me at JA+ before I was banned from there as well. Ksandra was the one who said we all agree with SJH here, though - obviously she doesn't stop by here very often. LOL

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Old 06-08-2005, 02:30 PM   #54
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AH! Soz, Fiensie (I like this AG'ers fun way of shortening names. Very cute!). No, I hadn't worked it out! Actually, under this name, reading your posts SOUND different. I don't know why that is. Or perhaps I'm just not very clever?

Ack, don't answer that.

@FGM - I don't know, I reckon Ksandra might be nudging about here now and again. Part of what she says is correct, though. There are more people here that share at least in part some of my views than at JA+, but there are also people like Ninth, Curt, fov, yourself and good (c'mon, you're not bad ) ol' Betje amongst others to even the balance. Keeps discussion fluid and makes people think!

It's wierd because as a site JA+ is far more liberal than its forum. Randy does a great job of maintaining a balance.
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Old 06-08-2005, 02:32 PM   #55
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*dons mod hat*

Hey, remember that time, like three days ago, when this was a thread about AG's Myst V preview?
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Old 06-08-2005, 02:33 PM   #56
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Yeah guys, let's go back on topic.
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Old 06-08-2005, 03:07 PM   #57
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Getting back on topic with a short post.

After all that - I'm really looking forward to seeing all that can be done with both 3D and people animations, in a Myst series games. I also bet that it won't have any of those pesky action things that we saw in Uru. It will also be first person - without anyone else to interact with (it's not an online game) - there's no reason to have it be 3rd person. You will be able to use the mouse or (thankfully) a keyboard. I'm looking forward to the game, and I still think it's great that Cyan gets to end the series. After all, they started it.

I also think it's great that Cyan is ending the series - I think there's actually too much of a history there with regards to Myst series games. It's time to end it, and then Cyan can go do something else.
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Old 06-08-2005, 03:10 PM   #58
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I wholeheartedly agree. Let them end it. Fans will bitch and whine, but give the creators a freaking break! They're tired of dishing out Myst this and Myst that. If we force them to make another one their hearts won't be in it and they'll turn out redundant crap.

So I'm looking forward to see what Cyan give birth to next.
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Old 06-08-2005, 03:12 PM   #59
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I have only played the first Myst game, and that was back in 1994 or whever it came out, so I missed a lot of the evolution of this series. But I can say that sitting in that room with Rand Miller, hearing him talk about how this was a fitting end to the series, I really got that impression. The fact that he believes it's the right direction to go and the right way to conclude the saga means something. His excitement was palpable. (Granted, I'd never met him before, so maybe he's always that excited!)

I also got the feeling (and this is hard to describe, so bear with me) that there will be some really interesting symbolism and subtext going on, as far as how the books work in the game - puzzles that are related to the creation of worlds, the same way that a book creates a world. Okay, nevermind, I can't explain it. But the puzzles and experience being described seemed very organic to the very Mystian convention of linking books, which is neat. I love nothing more than puzzles that are completely organic to the game world.
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Old 06-08-2005, 04:03 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by fov
His excitement was palpable. (Granted, I'd never met him before, so maybe he's always that excited!)
LOL... Rand is a self described big kid. He really is that excited about stuff. And honestly, seeing him excited about Myst V, after what must have been a soul crushing expreience with the end of Uru, gives me a whole lot of hope for the wrap up. 25 years is a long time to have been working on one universe.

And if you really want excited...when I had a chance to talk to him, and mentioned that people were already starting to get excited about Latus, his face lit up like a kid in a candy store
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