Are casual gamers people too? - Adventure Forums
You are viewing an archived version of the site which is no longer maintained.
Go to the current live site or the Adventure Gamers forums
Adventure Gamers

Home Adventure Forums Misc. Feedback Are casual gamers people too?


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-18-2005, 11:16 AM   #1
Musenik
 
Musenik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Francisco bay area
Posts: 29
Default Are casual gamers people too?

I read Emily Morganti's opening line of her review of 'The Witch's Yarn', and I laughed a little. I'm sure that was her intent. Yet the words have hung with me, and I feel a need to comment about them.

I think everyone should be mindful about raising barriers while communicating. This isn't about being 'politically correct', it's just a basic respect. In one sentence the author has raised the specter of 'one group is not like the others'. What is this, the third grade? I'm sorry, but I have to call 'silly' on that.

In that light, I'll quote the author's closing line, and just let the readers here think about it:

'...hey, this trend toward casual "almost adventure" games could be something we're all going to have to get used to.'
Musenik is offline  
Old 03-18-2005, 12:27 PM   #2
Hopeful skeptic
 
Jackal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 7,743
Default

I'm afraid I don't follow. The whole point of the article - in fact, the whole point of the game is that "one group is not like the others". The developer references that continually, and the gameplay designed accordingly. The article isn't raising barriers; just acknowledging the ones that exist.

I could even argue that the wording was an attempt to overcome those barriers, but it's probably just easier to say that the first line was indeed a joke that couldn't possibly be taken seriously (or literally).
Jackal is offline  
Old 03-18-2005, 01:11 PM   #3
Freeware Co-ordinator
 
stepurhan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: South East England.
Posts: 7,309
Default

To me, the opening line read not so much as a dig at casual gamers but more a self-mocking reference to serious gamers for dismissing people who just want to pay a little. I'd say that most people signed up to a forum like this one would be dedicated gamers (emily included). It's thus very easy for us to look down on people who won't devote the time needed to appreciate such gems as GK3.

The fact is (as many of us so often discover ourselves) there are other things to do besides gaming. Much as some of us might like to, we can't spend 24 hours playing. So, if people prefer a quick game just to wind down after a hard day at work then that's a choice we should respect.

I must say, I liked emily's review. I was waiting until I'd had a chance to look at the demo (which I managed today) and I think it's a fair judgement. She doesn't dismiss it becuase it's a casual game but because it's presentation has flaws. I think it's always good to have bad reviews (that's reviews of things that are bad not poorly done reviews. ) because it's as important to be warned something doesn't live up to expectations as to be notified of things you might otherwise miss.

Thanks emily and keep up the good work.
__________________
No Nonsense Nonsonnets #43

Cold Topic

A thread most controversial, that’s what I want to start
Full of impassioned arguments, of posting from the heart
And for this stimulation all will be thankful to me
On come on everybody it won’t work if you agree
stepurhan is offline  
Old 03-18-2005, 11:05 PM   #4
Musenik
 
Musenik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Francisco bay area
Posts: 29
Default

Of course, there's an irony inherent in this particular group I'm speaking for. Most of them would never call themselves gamers, nor would they even recognize the label 'casual'. The term is a complete artifice created by industry people.

Btw, my comments have nothing to do with the body or contents of the review. I'm just talking about the bookends she chose.
Musenik is offline  
Old 03-19-2005, 07:32 AM   #5
Magic Wand Waver
 
Fairygdmther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 3,142
Send a message via MSN to Fairygdmther
Default

I felt that Emily was just using a term that's been bandied about recently. The casual gamer, as referenced by Jane Jensen in her comments about Betrapped, point toward a huge audience of people who like to play the browser games, and who just might, with the right exposure toward puzzle type or mini-adv games, be drawn into the adventure gaming fold. They are not a "lesser" group, but simply not yet savvy about adv games. The more we can draw in, through whatever the means, the more adv games that are sold, the more money is available to make good adv games with. Works for me!

FGM
__________________
Nothing can bring you peace but yourself.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Fairygdmther is offline  
Old 03-19-2005, 10:28 AM   #6
fov
Rattenmonster
 
fov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 10,404
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stepurhan
To me, the opening line read not so much as a dig at casual gamers but more a self-mocking reference to serious gamers for dismissing people who just want to play a little.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I honestly don't understand what the problem is. Especially when the developer himself makes such a big point of emphasizing that this game was created for casual gamers. This focus significantly influenced the gameplay, and people have a right to know that before they buy the game.

The simple fact is, adventure gamers don't see themselves as casual gamers, and the people this game is aimed at (whether they call themselves "casual gamers" or not) don't consider themselves adventure gamers. There are differences between the groups, whether they're labeled or not. How does pointing out those differences equal immaturity? (And if we're terrible people for thinking this way... fine then, let's head back to the third grade. )

These types of distinctions are made all over the industry, in all genres. Any time players verbalize what types of games they like, whether those are adventures or RPGs or FPSes, categories are established. Whether or not casual gamers consider themselves gamers isn't the point. The point is that categorization exists, and lately it's been shoved down adventure gamers throats as if we have no choice but to accept it and play those games simply because the developer insists we'll like them. Sorry, but a game that isn't created with an adventure gamer's likes and dislikes in mind, while it may be entertaining in its own right, isn't an adventure game, no matter how you try to spin it.

-emily
fov is offline  
Old 03-19-2005, 11:47 AM   #7
Musenik
 
Musenik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Francisco bay area
Posts: 29
Default

It's only natural that people will interpret an author in many ways, especially a phrase intended to be harmless fun. My original comments had nothing to do with spin but perspective.

I probably need to give a better sense of how I read it and why it troubled me. What if we changed it slightly...


Repeat after me: "Canadians are people too."
Okay, now that I got that out of my system…

...and...

...hey, this trend toward Canadians could be something we're all going to have to get used to.


If I were Canadian, I certainly might wonder if there was some doubt to my people-ness and if I would have to gotten use to.
Musenik is offline  
Old 03-19-2005, 11:50 AM   #8
Fop
Epsilon-Minus Semi-Moron
 
Fop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 863
Default

People? Are they even mammals?

BTW, your example isn't valid. The article first comments on casual gamers and then casual *gaming*. Your example comments on Canadians and Canadians. It's not comparable.
Fop is offline  
Old 03-19-2005, 12:23 PM   #9
Musenik
 
Musenik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Francisco bay area
Posts: 29
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fop
BTW, your example isn't valid. The article first comments on casual gamers and then casual *gaming*. Your example comments on Canadians and Canadians. It's not comparable.
(with a wink) So are you trying to say Canadians aren't casual gamers, or are you saying casual gamers aren't Canadians? (wink off)
Musenik is offline  
Old 03-19-2005, 01:26 PM   #10
merely human
 
Intrepid Homoludens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 22,309
Default

I think he's saying that Canadians are not Canadi-ing.








__________________
platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs | gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii | blog: a space alien | book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris | games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain | sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer | music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake | twitter: a_space_alien
Intrepid Homoludens is offline  
Old 03-19-2005, 02:28 PM   #11
Citizen of Bizarro World
 
Maquisard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Htrae
Posts: 4,219
Default

You know, a friend of mine once told me that old French Canadian Asian women are the worst drivers in the world.

So I told him: "Repeat after me, Andrew: old French Canadian Asian women are people too."

But just because they "drive" cars, they don't have to shove down our throats that what they do is actually "driving." Cause what they do has nothing to do with our (drivers') likes and dislikes. Actually, it has a lot to do with our dislikes.

In conclusion--they may be human, but they're not really "drivers."

Get my point?

Good, 'cause I don't either.
__________________
By no rocket’s blue shade am no shells dead down there,
Gave no proof all day long that the flag was unwhere!
No say does am spar-strangled shroud hang limply!
Under land of no free! Am us home coward-leeee!

~Excerpt from the Bizarro Anthem
Maquisard is offline  
Old 03-19-2005, 02:31 PM   #12
merely human
 
Intrepid Homoludens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 22,309
Default

Yeah, I get your point. You're saying that French Canadian Asian women are lousy drivers.
__________________
platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs | gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii | blog: a space alien | book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris | games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain | sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer | music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake | twitter: a_space_alien
Intrepid Homoludens is offline  
Old 03-19-2005, 03:01 PM   #13
Citizen of Bizarro World
 
Maquisard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Htrae
Posts: 4,219
Default

No! You got it all wrong! You see (I just realized my true point): I was using the Canadian metaphor to explain what Emily meant to get across:

They're Canadian, and they're people, but what they do is not "driving."

Likewise, they're casual gamers, and they are people, but what they do isn't "adventure gaming."

So there.
__________________
By no rocket’s blue shade am no shells dead down there,
Gave no proof all day long that the flag was unwhere!
No say does am spar-strangled shroud hang limply!
Under land of no free! Am us home coward-leeee!

~Excerpt from the Bizarro Anthem
Maquisard is offline  
Old 03-19-2005, 03:16 PM   #14
merely human
 
Intrepid Homoludens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 22,309
Default

What? Now, that's just mean!

Now we'll have to go back to fighting over what an adventure game IS.







And old men in hats are the slowest-ass drivers in the world.
__________________
platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs | gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii | blog: a space alien | book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris | games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain | sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer | music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake | twitter: a_space_alien
Intrepid Homoludens is offline  
Old 03-19-2005, 03:37 PM   #15
Citizen of Bizarro World
 
Maquisard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Htrae
Posts: 4,219
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens
What? Now, that's just mean!

Now we'll have to go back to fighting over what an adventure game IS.
Hey, don't shoot the messenger! Shoot Emily!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens
And old men in hats are the slowest-ass drivers in the world.
Is it like old men in baseball caps driving Porches, or old men in cowboy hats driving old crankedy-ass pick-up trucks?


...I think you're right on both counts!
__________________
By no rocket’s blue shade am no shells dead down there,
Gave no proof all day long that the flag was unwhere!
No say does am spar-strangled shroud hang limply!
Under land of no free! Am us home coward-leeee!

~Excerpt from the Bizarro Anthem

Last edited by Maquisard; 03-19-2005 at 03:45 PM.
Maquisard is offline  
Old 03-19-2005, 03:39 PM   #16
merely human
 
Intrepid Homoludens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 22,309
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mares
Hey, don't shoot the messenger! Shoot Emily!
I...I can't! She's too damn cute!
__________________
platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs | gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii | blog: a space alien | book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris | games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain | sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer | music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake | twitter: a_space_alien
Intrepid Homoludens is offline  
Old 03-19-2005, 06:50 PM   #17
Hopeful skeptic
 
Jackal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 7,743
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Musenik
Repeat after me: "Canadians are people too."
Okay, now that I got that out of my system…

...and...

...hey, this trend toward Canadians could be something we're all going to have to get used to.


If I were Canadian, I certainly might wonder if there was some doubt to my people-ness and if I would have to gotten use to.
Wait... if casual gamers don't consider themselves "casual" or even "gamers", then why would they be offended by a reference they don't associate with themselves?

Anyway, besides the fact that many Americans DO think of Canadians that way (), your Canada example illustrates how absurd it is to take the remark literally. If I heard someone say that about us (based on a gripe over... absolutely nothing, as is the case here), I would KNOW to interpret it as that person's struggle to adapt to something about us. And all the more if it was said humourously. You said yourself that you laughed when you first read it, so I'd say it succeeded at what it intended. Dissecting it out of context just strikes me as looking for problems where none exist.
Jackal is offline  
Old 03-19-2005, 06:56 PM   #18
merely human
 
Intrepid Homoludens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 22,309
Default

Hey, I'm American, and I have no clue. What exactly is the stereotypical Canadian like?

(or I should just ask in Chit Chat )
__________________
platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs | gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii | blog: a space alien | book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris | games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain | sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer | music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake | twitter: a_space_alien
Intrepid Homoludens is offline  
Old 03-19-2005, 10:34 PM   #19
Musenik
 
Musenik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Francisco bay area
Posts: 29
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal
Dissecting it out of context just strikes me as looking for problems where none exist.
The context I established concerned the lingering regret I felt about my own reaction. The problem exists certainly within me, sparked by a few innocent but potent lines. By expressing my concern with in this forum, my purpose is to speak up for the ignorant masses that have been named in their absence. My purpose is to shine the light of righteousness upon the creeping shadows of transgression! Let hosts of judges be called, and may they cast their bones against the label makers, and the pigeon-holers, and those who would whip the enlightened masses into dark corners and teach them to whisper against one another!!!

You know there was once an elementary school teacher who...

QUOTE

"She divided the class into two groups: the brown eyes and the blue eyes. Anyone not fitting these categories, such as those with green or hazel eyes, was an outsider, not actively participating in the exercise. Elliott told her children that brown-eyed people were superior to blue-eyed, due to the amount of the color-causing-chemical, melanin, in their blood.


She said that blue-eyed people were stupid and lazy and not to be trusted. To ensure that the eye color differentiation could be made quickly, Elliott passed out strips of cloth that fastened at the neck as collars. The brown eyes gleefully affixed the cloth-made shackles on their blue-eyed counterparts.


Elliott withdrew her blue-eyed students’ basic classroom rights, such as drinking directly from the water fountain or taking a second helping at lunch. Brown-eyed kids, on the other hand, received preferential treatment. In addition to being permitted to boss around the blues, the browns were given an extended recess.


Elliott recalls, "It was just horrifying how quickly they became what I told them they were." Within 30 minutes, a blue-eyed girl named Carol had regressed from a "brilliant, self-confident carefree, excited little girl to a frightened, timid, uncertain little almost-person."


On the flip side, the brown-eyed children excelled under their newfound superiority. Elliott had seven students with dyslexia in her class that year and four of them had brown eyes. On the day that the browns were "on top," those four brown-eyed boys with dyslexia read words that Elliott "knew they couldn’t read" and spelled words that she "knew they couldn’t spell."


Seeing her brown-eyed students act like "arrogant, ugly, domineering, overbearing White Americans" with no instructions to do so proved to Elliott that racism is learned. Prior to that day in 1968, her students had expressed neither positive nor negative thoughts about each other based on eye color. Yes, Elliott taught them that it was all right to judge one another based on eye color. But she did not teach them how to oppress. "They already knew how to be racist because every one of them knew without my telling them how to treat those who were on the bottom," says Elliott."

END QUOTE

The moral of that story is how simple it is to divide people. The most innocent demarcation can drive a wedge. It's a lot harder to unite people.

Please keep in mind that I'm concerned about Emily's words, not her intent.

I think she could have found a better joke.
Musenik is offline  
Old 03-20-2005, 03:29 AM   #20
Fop
Epsilon-Minus Semi-Moron
 
Fop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 863
Default

That until there are no longer first class
And second class citizens of any nation
Until the colour of a man's skin
Is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes
Me say war

I still think you're constructing a problem. It's only natural active gamers shun the trend of simplifying games they play to cater to a market that doesn't even care for games. Nobody thinks we're better persons, only better gamers.
Fop is offline  
 



Thread Tools

 


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.