That Doesn't Work Article

Glenn Epic · 11-23-2004, 01:55 AM

Normally I'm not the type of person who starts one of these "praise" threads but this time I just couldn't resist. Great first article, keep 'em comming

Cheers, Glenn Davie

Simo Sakari Aaltonen · 11-23-2004, 04:37 AM

I agree. This was a really enjoyable and well-written article. Excellent work, Ben! 8-)

AFGNCAAP · 11-23-2004, 05:32 AM

I've also read that one with pleasure - great debut! One disclaimer: the chimney puzzle example actually sounds fun, even if counterintuitive. I don't find it hard to believe that I would have different opinion if I actually played through the game, though.

Now we're waiting for "pixel hunting" and "timed sequences" articles...

*chapter11studios* · 11-23-2004, 06:29 AM

Ben, good first article, and a topic that--while intuitive to those who have played a lot of games--still seems to seep into new ones far too often. I think you're right, it's basically laziness and/or sloppiness.

One issue, though: You wrote, "Discworld. What with Terry Pratchett being closely involved in the development, and what with Terry Pratchett being a dick, the original Discworld suffered from a criminal amount of That Doesn't Work."

I'm not sticking up for Pratchett, but I did feel it was sort of pointless to put that in there. Does it really contribute to the article to attack Pratchett, when his dickiness or non-dickiness has nothing to do with the fact that the game has a lot of "that doesn't work" comments? It does not.

My two cents. Welcome aboard.

TigerShard · 11-23-2004, 06:38 AM

Great article! You have captured the thoughts that many adventure gamers have had countless times over and over again. Lets hope some game developers get their hands on it

***Jackal*** · 11-23-2004, 07:44 AM

Yeah, good one, Ben.

I wrote a paper once called the Psychology of No, and it's so applicable to adventure games. Negative feedback IS demoralizing. Tell someone NO, and it makes them stop caring, and eventually resentful. No game should ever create an antagonistic relationship with the player.

Even if the answer IS no, the trick is to turn it into a motivation. With just a simple change of language, you can inspire a whole different mindset of finding the right solution, rather than feeling punished for guessing the wrong one. "That doesn't work" becomes "I'd rather try something else". It's a small thing, but when you hear it as often as you do in an adventure game, it really adds up.

Of course, I agree with you that what's really needed is an improved clue/hint system or offering multiple solutions as you outlined. But even a twit can change the language from no to yes. That's a start.

Kolzig · 11-23-2004, 08:57 AM

Indeed, a great article.
I especially liked the Zak McKracken part.

DomStLeger · 11-23-2004, 08:58 AM

Enjoyable article.

But I have to object to:

Quote:

"What with Terry Pratchett being closely involved in the development, and what with Terry Pratchett being a dick"

Thats a bit abusive and unnecessary isn't it? I know it's been mentioned, but I wonder if people know quite how crude a term it is in britain?

AGA · 11-23-2004, 09:34 AM

It was a good article, with a lot of valid points. It was rather scathing (and outright offensive in places) though. Still, if it got past the Editing Machine, obviously Evan (or whoever) didn't think it was much of an issue...

Sirus · 11-23-2004, 10:05 AM

Great work. I thought it was a well written article.

***fov*** · 11-23-2004, 10:15 AM

Fun article. I ran into a lot of this with the review copy of Legacy: Dark Shadows and it was starting to be very annoying.

The issue isn't exclusive to inventory items, either. I'm playing Syberia II right now - SO GLAD that Kate has had "no need to go down there" wiped from her vocabulary!

-emily

RLacey · 11-23-2004, 10:51 AM

Very nicely done. I look forward to reading whatever you come up with next

.

_cj_ · 11-23-2004, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DomStLeger

Thats a bit abusive and unnecessary isn't it? I know it's been mentioned, but I wonder if people know quite how crude a term it is in britain?

Personally, I just thought it was funny... it's not as if he said the c-word

Tobbe · 11-23-2004, 12:26 PM

I also thought this article was great..I´ll hope we´ll here more from you in the near future, keep up the good work Ben!

Yahtzee · 11-23-2004, 01:43 PM

Thanks, everyone. Yes, that Terry Pratchett thing was probably unnecessarily. I just really, really think he's a dick.

11-23-2004, 02:02 PM

lol, i loved the games but you do have a point about them.

rio · 11-23-2004, 02:09 PM

Good article, I still can't get over the rock lobster reference

*Jake* · 11-23-2004, 02:12 PM

Remo's head is going to explode.

MDMaster · 11-23-2004, 02:44 PM

Good article, reminded me a bit my 'most spoken phrases in AGs' thread

Erwin_Br · 11-23-2004, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake

Remo's head is going to explode.

Why, he's a Pratchett fan?

--Erwin

11-23-2004, 01:55 AM	#1
Glenn Epic How am I not myself? Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 1,009	That Doesn't Work Article Normally I'm not the type of person who starts one of these "praise" threads but this time I just couldn't resist. Great first article, keep 'em comming Cheers, Glenn Davie Share Share this post on Twitter

11-23-2004, 04:37 AM	#2
Simo Sakari Aaltonen Banned User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 447	I agree. This was a really enjoyable and well-written article. Excellent work, Ben! 8-) Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ Simo Sakari Aaltonen ([email protected]) www.adventurecompanion.com

11-23-2004, 05:32 AM	#3
AFGNCAAP Dungeon Master Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Poland Posts: 4,152	I've also read that one with pleasure - great debut! One disclaimer: the chimney puzzle example actually sounds fun, even if counterintuitive. I don't find it hard to believe that I would have different opinion if I actually played through the game, though. Now we're waiting for "pixel hunting" and "timed sequences" articles... Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ What's happening? Wh... Where am I?

11-23-2004, 06:29 AM	#4
chapter11studios Dread Pirate Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Beverly, Massachusetts, USA Posts: 452	Ben, good first article, and a topic that--while intuitive to those who have played a lot of games--still seems to seep into new ones far too often. I think you're right, it's basically laziness and/or sloppiness. One issue, though: You wrote, "Discworld. What with Terry Pratchett being closely involved in the development, and what with Terry Pratchett being a dick, the original Discworld suffered from a criminal amount of That Doesn't Work." I'm not sticking up for Pratchett, but I did feel it was sort of pointless to put that in there. Does it really contribute to the article to attack Pratchett, when his dickiness or non-dickiness has nothing to do with the fact that the game has a lot of "that doesn't work" comments? It does not. My two cents. Welcome aboard. Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ Josh Roberts Project Coordinator Rise of the Hidden Sun

11-23-2004, 06:38 AM	#5
TigerShard Resident AG Ninja Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 387	Great article! You have captured the thoughts that many adventure gamers have had countless times over and over again. Lets hope some game developers get their hands on it Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ "Funny, everytime I get involved in saving the world I turn into a kleptomanic." -George Stobbart in Broken Sword: The Sleeping Dragon "Intution tells me how to live my day. Intuition tells me when to walk away. Could have turned left, could have turned right, but I ended up here, bang, in the middle of a real life" - Natalie Imbruglia 'Intuition'

11-23-2004, 07:44 AM	#6
*Jackal* Hopeful skeptic Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 7,743	Yeah, good one, Ben. I wrote a paper once called the Psychology of No, and it's so applicable to adventure games. Negative feedback IS demoralizing. Tell someone NO, and it makes them stop caring, and eventually resentful. No game should ever create an antagonistic relationship with the player. Even if the answer IS no, the trick is to turn it into a motivation. With just a simple change of language, you can inspire a whole different mindset of finding the right solution, rather than feeling punished for guessing the wrong one. "That doesn't work" becomes "I'd rather try something else". It's a small thing, but when you hear it as often as you do in an adventure game, it really adds up. Of course, I agree with you that what's really needed is an improved clue/hint system or offering multiple solutions as you outlined. But even a twit can change the language from no to yes. That's a start. Share Share this post on Twitter

11-23-2004, 08:57 AM	#7
Kolzig The Reggienator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Vaasa, Finland Posts: 5,519	Indeed, a great article. I especially liked the Zak McKracken part. Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ "The old standby, that never got old in the first place. We come back to them weekly, nightly, for hours at a time--and they always deliver. They are pure, timeless, and often taken for granted." - Nick Breckon - Shacknews My gamesale list updated 26.8.2007 Hey, dear people please buy my games, I need money to conquer Europe! Or do something similar.

11-23-2004, 09:34 AM	#9
AGA AdventureGameAficionado Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Cardiff, Wales Posts: 1,968	It was a good article, with a lot of valid points. It was rather scathing (and outright offensive in places) though. Still, if it got past the Editing Machine, obviously Evan (or whoever) didn't think it was much of an issue... Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ Berian Williams - [SIZE=1]Visit agagames.com for free adventure games!

11-23-2004, 10:05 AM	#10
Sirus Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Texas, US Posts: 227	Great work. I thought it was a well written article. Share Share this post on Twitter

11-23-2004, 10:15 AM	#11
*fov* Rattenmonster Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Francisco Posts: 10,404	Fun article. I ran into a lot of this with the review copy of Legacy: Dark Shadows and it was starting to be very annoying. The issue isn't exclusive to inventory items, either. I'm playing Syberia II right now - SO GLAD that Kate has had "no need to go down there" wiped from her vocabulary! -emily Share Share this post on Twitter

11-23-2004, 10:51 AM	#12
RLacey The Thread™ will die. Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 22,542	Very nicely done. I look forward to reading whatever you come up with next . Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ RLacey \| Killer of the Thread™ I do not change to be perfect. Perfect changes to be me.

11-23-2004, 12:26 PM	#14
Tobbe Living with my love Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 1,453	I also thought this article was great..I´ll hope we´ll here more from you in the near future, keep up the good work Ben! Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ ''My names George. It means... Well, its just a name'' George Stobbart-Broken Sword

11-23-2004, 01:43 PM	#15
Yahtzee Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 27	Thanks, everyone. Yes, that Terry Pratchett thing was probably unnecessarily. I just really, really think he's a dick. Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ treat yourself to fullyramblomatic.com

11-23-2004, 02:02 PM	#16
guybrush_guy Guest Posts: n/a	lol, i loved the games but you do have a point about them. Share Share this post on Twitter

11-23-2004, 02:09 PM	#17
rio Custom User Title Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 271	Good article, I still can't get over the rock lobster reference Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ Joe Blessing Underground Writer Adventure Gamers Underground

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11-23-2004, 02:12 PM	#18
Jake The Dartmaster Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Rafael, California Posts: 3,084	Remo's head is going to explode. Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ When on the Internet, visit Idle Thumbs \| Mixnmojo \| Sam & Max.net \| Telltale Games "I was one of the original lovers." - Evan Dickens

11-23-2004, 02:44 PM	#19
MDMaster Evil Webmaster Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,037	Good article, reminded me a bit my 'most spoken phrases in AGs' thread Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ Pushed back to square Now that you've kneed her In the throat So there you go