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Old 08-27-2007, 11:27 PM   #41
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Yeah, if you're doing a goal-oriented puzzle here, i.e. if being able to properly sway the NPC is essential to the game's progress and angering them too much will actually block you from proceeding, then you'll definitely have to make things crystal clear to the player. Either that, or you'll have to provide an alternate solution to the puzzle, should the player fail to succeed at the swaying.
I'm trying to make few of them essential in my game. I want them to have more of a choice than pass or restart. For example, one time early in the game, if you can't sway someone, you'll lose out on a non-essential hint, but then later in the game, you meet that character again, and if you left her angry before, this part of the game has an extra puzzle to circumvent the NPC you pissed off. In another example, you're trying to make the conversation as long as possible to provide sort of a distraction. All roads lead to the eventual depletion of the Sway Bar and the resulting end of the conversation, but some lead there slower, allowing another character enough time to accomplish his task. I'm hoping that conversational puzzles that aren't a simple pass/fail multiple choice quiz can help engross the player in the characters.

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That said, I have indeed found that I've been doing a lot more writing (and thinking!) than I've ever had to do for any game I've written. It's been fun, though.
And that's the most important thing! Looking forward to it, Squinky!
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Old 08-28-2007, 07:35 AM   #42
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Ebert's notion that if you can change every aspect of the story within a game means it's not art seems like he's jumping ahead of things, if there don't seem to be many games (if any?) that have really reached that level of interactivity.
My instinctive (i.e. I can't give you a good motivation for it) response to that is that it might be the other way around. A strictly linear game is art in the same way as a movie, but when you throw the interactivity in the mix, that's when you find a new artform. (I suppose it's the "new artform" bit that leads to it being called "not art".) I don't worry about it, though. Art is such a fuzzy concept anyway.
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Old 08-28-2007, 09:09 AM   #43
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I absolutely like the idea that as a player you won't be able to actually see the character's affinity level represented by numbers. That's what I dislike about RPG's, and why they just don't cut it with me: they're usually presenting some sort of world that's supposed to be a place you can really get sucked into, but at the same time everything is about numbers and 'upgrading' and reaching the next level in what is so obviously a game. And those two things, for me, simply don't work together very well.

'Outcast' did use an affinity system kind of like yours, although I'm not sure how many levels they used: could be three, maybe five... 'Levels' in this context being the possible different ways of how npc's would respond or react to you, not the actual number of 'points'. They used this both with random npc's and with important npc's. I think you could even be in the middle of helping an npc, and when their affinity dropped severely (because they saw you murder several innocent people, for instance), they wouldn't even be bothered by your attempts to 'finish your quest', they'd just tell you to get lost, you piece of Zort! Admittedly, I could be partly wrong about that because it's been a while since I last played it, but hey, it sounds good
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Old 09-13-2007, 12:00 PM   #44
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If Ebert has a problem with games qualifying as art, what does he think of this?

http://www.boston.com/ae/theater_art...13/on_and_off/
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Old 09-13-2007, 01:31 PM   #45
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It would probably make his head asplode.
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Old 08-04-2008, 02:07 PM   #46
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Well, my point is that in a multi-branched story, the meaning and impact of each branch is affected by the existence of other alternatives. Let's take Macbeth as an example. As it exists, the story of Macbeth tells about an ambitious general who, following a prophecy by three witches, assassinates his king, takes the throne, in paranoia slaughters those he considers his rivals, and rules as a tyrant until overthrown. This storyline sends a number of messages, for instance that a usurper cannot be a good king. Now, imagine that Macbeth: The Adventure Game allowed players to change the course of this story, so that Macbeth seizes the throne and wipes out his rivals, but then in repentance devotes his reign to peaceful reconciliation and public improvements. Or choose to tolerate his rivals, only to find that they're as ambitious and ruthless as himself and have him killed within the month. Or a version where he ignores the witches' prophecy, remains loyal to his king, and finds himself made royal heir as a reward.

Crucially, these alternative Macbeth stories actually change the meaning of the original Macbeth. Awareness of them influence how we interpret the first story. Even more importantly, if all the versions are equally ranked, they start to cancel each other out. Is it a tragedy or a comedy, a heroic epic or a cautionary tale? If Macbeth can be a tyrant or a benevolent sovereign, then he isn't really either. If he can do anything, then he has done nothing. At the point of complete freedom, you have no story, just a sandbox.
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See, I'm reading what you've written, and am thinking all the while "Wow! I would SO enjoy playing such a game!" Yes, linear stories have strengths of their own, but I believe that interactive stories have potential as well, much of it as of yet untapped. And the existence of the latter will by no means eradicate the existence of the former, as it seems that many fear. Saying, for example, that I shouldn't waste time creating interactive stories when I could be writing a much better, traditional linear adventure game instead, well, that's almost like saying that [insert favourite screenwriter/director here] shouldn't be making movies because s/he could be writing a deeper, richer novel instead.
On the whole thread of creating interactive versions of literary classics with multiple possible paths through it, this story might offer an interesting case study. Basically, a bunch of French researchers created an interactive version of Madame Bovary.
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Old 08-04-2008, 02:48 PM   #47
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That's fascinating. Thanks, Gunnar.
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