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Old 05-25-2007, 07:53 AM   #1
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I thought this hit pretty well on all the major weak points of the game. Good job, Emily.

Nice to see a shout-out to the KQ5 thread a couple of weeks back too (the mention of the two Walk icons in the original disk version). Though of course they did work noticeably differently (the Walk icon made Graham move slowly in one direction, stopping if he hit any obstacles, SCI0-style, while the Travel icon made him move more swiftly to the point you clicked, navigating around things in his path, like LucasArts' standard walking mode).

And I did think that the problem of dead-ends might have merited a bit more emphasis in the review, given how it's one of the major sticking points for most gamers. You do a fine job of pointing out how bad they are, but perhaps there should have been a mention of just how unspeakably long you can play on before you realize you're stuck in one!

PS - just thought I'd note something interesting: the inventory windows are different in the KQ5 disk vs. CD versions.

The original disk version had very large icons in the inventory window. To manipulate your items you moved the cursor up to the icon bar and selected the EYE or HAND. If you selected one of those and then wanted to get the pointy cursor back, you had to close the inventory and re-open it! Plus, your current score was also included on the inventory screen.

The CD version had a smaller window with shrunken icons. The EYE, HAND, and pointy cursor were all available as buttons in the window, and you didn't need to go up to the icon bar. Plus the points earned weren't there, as they had been moved to the now-combined options screen.

Last edited by ATMachine; 05-25-2007 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 05-25-2007, 08:03 AM   #2
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Gotta say, I agreed with just about everything Emily said in her review -- and I thought there were times when she was quite merciful and tactful, even when she didn't need to be. I doubt I could've been quite as gentle as she was about some aspects of the game.

--Josh
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Old 05-25-2007, 08:35 AM   #3
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We just started on some of the KQ games from The Collection TM, and so far I have to agree about that Cedric... eeeegads!! Woooooooo.. *gag*
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Old 05-25-2007, 09:50 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATMachine View Post
Nice to see a shout-out to the KQ5 thread a couple of weeks back too (the mention of the two Walk icons in the original disk version). Though of course they did work noticeably differently (the Walk icon made Graham move slowly in one direction, stopping if he hit any obstacles, SCI0-style, while the Travel icon made him move more swiftly to the point you clicked, navigating around things in his path, like LucasArts' standard walking mode).
I played the disk version for a while after finishing the CD version and can honestly say I didn't notice a difference. But maybe the screens I tried it on didn't have many obstacles?

Quote:
And I did think that the problem of dead-ends might have merited a bit more emphasis in the review, given how it's one of the major sticking points for most gamers. You do a fine job of pointing out how bad they are, but perhaps there should have been a mention of just how unspeakably long you can play on before you realize you're stuck in one!
This is probably a result of me playing with a hint book by my side the very first time I played King's Quest V. I don't remember ever getting stuck, and I think that's why. (I'm not sure what possessed me to buy a hint book so early on -- normally I wouldn't have done that *until* I was stuck -- but it could be because I was playing with a friend who wasn't really into figuring the stuff out and she influenced me to get it. I do have very fond memories of playing the game with her, so it's not all bad, but this was not a game I solved on my own by any stretch of the imagination!)

Quote:
PS - just thought I'd note something interesting: the inventory windows are different in the KQ5 disk vs. CD versions.

The original disk version had very large icons in the inventory window. To manipulate your items you moved the cursor up to the icon bar and selected the EYE or HAND. If you selected one of those and then wanted to get the pointy cursor back, you had to close the inventory and re-open it! Plus, your current score was also included on the inventory screen.
I noticed this when I was trying out the disk version and couldn't figure out how to
Spoiler:
open the pouch of emeralds.
I didn't actually realize I could get the icon bar to show up, but I figured out I could right click to cycle through the cursors. I'm pretty sure that the Mac version I originally played had the same interface as the CD, not the DOS disk version. It was released in 1991 so there would have been time for Sierra to revamp the interface for that release.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josho
Gotta say, I agreed with just about everything Emily said in her review -- and I thought there were times when she was quite merciful and tactful, even when she didn't need to be. I doubt I could've been quite as gentle as she was about some aspects of the game.
Such as?

When I was writing the review and evaluating what I liked/disliked about it this time around, I did rely somewhat on my memories of playing it originally back in 1992 (my parents got it for me as a 14th birthday present -- I even remember opening it!) Like I said, I kept the hint book close by and don't have any bad memories of getting stuck, and since I played a non-talkie version the voices were not an issue. It wasn't until more recently that I realized some people really disliked this game. I can look at it objectively and understand why, but deep down I still really do like it, myself.
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Old 05-25-2007, 10:09 AM   #5
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Absolutely fantastic review Emily. Once again, you hit the nail right on the head with this game.

I remember King's Quest V was the game I learned DOS for. Before then, computers were kid friendly, us young'uns just made sure the disk of the game we wanted to play was in the drive before starting up the computer. With this game, I had to learn "cd sierra", then "cd kq5" then "kq5".

I can't wait to read your review of King's Quest VI. I just replayed this series again recently, and was amazed not only how well King's Quest VI had aged, but how amazingly fun it still was. Despite knowing all the puzzle solutions (I played SIerra games so much growing up that unfortunately, apart from a couple, I have internalized the solutions to every game), I still found myself worried when Alexander was over the fire pit, or giddy as he infiltrated the castle...

...Your reviews capture the magic of playing these games, warts and all. I'd love to see you tackle another classic "Quest" series after King's Quest is done!
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Old 05-25-2007, 11:20 AM   #6
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Great review as always Miss King's Quest. I loved this game and it holds a very special place in my heart. I remember buying it, installing it, and just sitting there staring at my monitor for hours. It was just unreal.

Ugh! I am so jealous Josh Mandel was there to see it being produced!! Josh, spill the beans and let us in on some cool factoids.

Some fun King's Quest 5 stuff I own:

-The original "New Creations" newsletter with the first screenshots scanned in that were the actual paintings and NOT the screen grabs.

-King's Quest 5 (all variant boxes including the original cheeseball family going into the painting version. pretty easy to find still.)

-original lithographic prints sold as a promo item.

-King's Quest 5 print ads! (forgot about these!)

-King's Quest 5 t-shirt & hintbok

Last edited by eriq; 05-25-2007 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 05-25-2007, 12:50 PM   #7
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Wow, that's some cool stuff. I only have the hint book.

Quote:
I can't wait to read your review of King's Quest VI.
I can't wait to write it! I am really excited to dive into this game again.

Quote:
...Your reviews capture the magic of playing these games, warts and all. I'd love to see you tackle another classic "Quest" series after King's Quest is done!
Thanks! Maybe I will.

I just wish it wasn't taking me so long to go through the series, but life keeps getting in the way...
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Old 05-25-2007, 12:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriq View Post
-The original "New Creations" newsletter with the first screenshots scanned in that were the actual paintings and NOT the screen grabs.
From what I've seen it would appear that some of the original paintings feature Graham walking through them, with his painted self being at least twice as big as his final pixely sprite. Odd.
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Old 05-25-2007, 04:57 PM   #9
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Emily,

Well, you handled the voiceover stuff very diplomatically...for which I'm grateful! I also thought you were diplomatic re: some of the inventory puzzles (such as turning on the machine) and the desert. But hey, I think we agreed on all the problems overall.

Eriq,

KQV was already well underway when I first got to Sierra, so I missed a lot of what went on at the beginning. I do think it was the first game to require outside artists; if I remember correctly, a lot of the art was from Korea (we had some superb artists, but not enough to turn out all of THAT great work).

One thing that Emily touched on very briefly that I'd like to expand on was Cedric's intended function. The way I heard it, Cedric was originally intended to be a sort of in-game hint system: he'd follow Graham throughout the game, would know exactly where Graham was in solving puzzles, and be able to give gentle direction.

But memory kept cropping up as a problem. We were always testing games on minimal configurations and ensuring that the game was playable (not necessarily ENJOYABLY sometimes, but at least playable from start to finish). The result was that Cedric was constantly "breaking" rooms. That's why Cedric keeps saying, "I'll stay out here" or so on -- we had to keep him out of rooms or areas that demanded more memory. As more effects were loaded into rooms, there got to be fewer and fewer places where Cedric could be safely used.

That begs the question of why Cedric as hint-giver was eventually deemed lower priority than other things that might've been preferable, from a design standpoint, to omit (like ambient animations). I don't know the answer to that, but I have a suspicion: hintbook sales.

--Josh
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Old 05-30-2007, 04:48 PM   #10
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Well, I just finished KQVI today and I am still amazed how good it is.
It's probably the only game which I forgive mostly the dead ends.
The reason for this is that it is clear when you're stuck, when you need an item that you don't have, except maybe for one occasion.
In these cases you are trapped in one place and if you didn't take preparations then you're out of luck.
But it's nice how some things were handled.
Spoiler:
For example, when you threw the skull into the gears of the death trap, the ceiling immediately fell down instead that you could go on and got stuck later on when you took the main path.
Or, when you forgot hole-in-the-wall, then you get the appropiate hint that it would be good if you had a way to peer through this wall. And then the mynotaur comes along...

I think this part in the series was mainly so good because of Jane Jensen. The game is so well planned, the islands and inhabitants so well portrayed, it's not something you find in other games with Roberta, but the Gabriel Knight games are equally detailed.

I also loved the possibility of taking two different paths. The longer one feels like it was planned for hardcore adventure gamers who would want some really tough puzzles while the short path feels like a bit over medium, so more for the average player.

I just wished that the other King's Quest games could have brought the same excitement of adventure to me. But mostly, they felt empty.
They just referenced fairy tales and had a very simple story line, had puzzles that made no real sense for your task and many dead ends which weren't obvious.
The syndrom of having to read the designer's mind had also befallen many of these games.

But in KQVI it is also nice how your decisions in the game affect the end.
Spoiler:
When you went to the underworld then you brought cassimas parents along; when you found the stolen treasures from the islands then the leaders of those will attend the wedding. Also, when you send Cassima the ring then she will have it. If not, you have it, except if you didn't trade it back for the pearl.
I don't know what then happens...


It's just great to see how your actions get recognized by the game, you don't feel ignored. And often enough, the game will also give you an appropiate response when you try different things.

If there's sth. to critisize then it would be the many pointless walking.
Since the map only works at the beach it won't be a rare occurence...
....also, some dead ends weren't nice.
Spoiler:
For example, it wasn't clear to me that you needed the tin nightingale in the castle on the short path.
At least Alexander or the narrator could have warned the player...
One puzzle was also totally absurd (that the skeleton key opens the chest in the castle, could also be a stupid dead end, but I didn't trap in it).
And another one was really far-fetched (the one with the riddle from the skeleton door: the riddle itself is in no way a hint, only a piece of paper which you see much earlier on in the game...)


Nevertheless, I rarely felt frustrated, and more felt joy.
But it was a tough game. I needed the walkthrough a few times...

Last edited by Kurufinwe; 05-30-2007 at 09:07 PM. Reason: Spoiler tags...
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