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Old 02-16-2006, 03:57 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP
...Gobliiins series, Schizm, Fahrenheit. "To some degree" (ie. at one or two points in the whole game only) Gabriel Knight 2, Broken Sword 3 and certainly several others I can't think of right now.
I mean being able to switch between characters at will, not just when the plot requires it.
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Old 02-16-2006, 04:55 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Seed
I mean being able to switch between characters at will, not just when the plot requires it.
That's what I meant.
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Old 02-16-2006, 06:58 AM   #23
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I haven't played DOTT, so I can't speak to how it's used in that game, but what's interesting to me about switching characters in this one is that for the most part it's not puzzle-dependent. Yeah, in GK2 and BS3 you can occasionally switch from one character to the other at will, but it's always driven by the puzzle you're trying to solve and the need to get at it from the other character's perspective.

In Cow Race, you can just decide to switch at many points in the game. I did it because I wasn't sure what to do next with one guy so I moved to another. It kept the game moving when I might have ended up in need of a hint if I only had the one character to control. It also has a neat effect on linearity... the game feels a lot less linear because you can move from character to character at will, but you still have narrative structure -- not one, but three. Usually in an adventure game it's one or the other, either you have a strong narrative or you have open-ended gameplay. Telltale has found a way to make the game non-linear and to follow a narrative at the same time.
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Old 02-16-2006, 08:12 AM   #24
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Compare the new model to this picture of the old one. It's not just the hair, but also the shape of her face and eyes. The face was longer and more angular before; now it's rounder with softer edges. Same with the eyes -- they were kind of narrow and slitty before, and now they're a bit larger and rounder. They're subtle changes, but I think both contribute to a younger, more innocent feel for the character. I definitely think this model is closer to the Thorn in the book than the previous one.
Better. Eyes still aren't shaped right, though. Her look may be a little softer, but the innocence isn't there yet. Part of the problem is that she has no eyelids. That may sound nitpicky, but it's not. It's not like the comic is overly detailed, but they're almost always present there. And used well, it really helps with conveying the proper expression.

EDIT: Also, I'm really stoked about all the improvements in Bone 2. I'm sure Telltale already knew for themselves much of what the fans complained about, but it's great to know how dedicated they are to addressing them.
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Old 02-16-2006, 08:17 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fov
I haven't played DOTT, so I can't speak to how it's used in that game, but what's interesting to me about switching characters in this one is that for the most part it's not puzzle-dependent.
In DOTT each character has its own set of puzzles, plus some puzzles that require collaboration from the other ones.

But more important: Go play DOTT, girl!
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Old 02-16-2006, 08:31 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Ninth
But more important: Go play DOTT, girl!
I know, I know. You don't know how embarrassing it was to admit to Dave Grossman that I haven't.
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Old 02-16-2006, 08:38 AM   #27
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I still haven't played it (Bone 1, not DOTT ), but I'm going to have to, if only not to feel dumb when people start raving about the second one.

And companies that try so hard to please their customers and to correct their past mistakes are too rare not to be supported (and that's not only true of computer gaming, unfortunately).
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Old 02-16-2006, 08:39 AM   #28
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"Playing DOTT is my life's mission, Dave, but you wouldn't believe the difficulty I'm having finding a copy! You wouldn't happen to have a spare lying around, would you?"



Not so hard, really.
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Old 02-16-2006, 08:44 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fov
I haven't played DOTT, so I can't speak to how it's used in that game, but what's interesting to me about switching characters in this one is that for the most part it's not puzzle-dependent. Yeah, in GK2 and BS3 you can occasionally switch from one character to the other at will, but it's always driven by the puzzle you're trying to solve and the need to get at it from the other character's perspective.

In Cow Race, you can just decide to switch at many points in the game. I did it because I wasn't sure what to do next with one guy so I moved to another. It kept the game moving when I might have ended up in need of a hint if I only had the one character to control. It also has a neat effect on linearity... the game feels a lot less linear because you can move from character to character at will, but you still have narrative structure -- not one, but three. Usually in an adventure game it's one or the other, either you have a strong narrative or you have open-ended gameplay. Telltale has found a way to make the game non-linear and to follow a narrative at the same time.
Yes, GK2 or BS3 had this option turned on in predetermined places only, but other games mentioned by Udvarnoky and me, like Maniac Mansion or Gobliiins, were built entirely around this idea (and Fahrenheit probably sits somewhere in the middle, because there are not many moments when you can choose a character, but the feature is an important part of the game's identity). Yes, often the collaboration between the characters was necessary to make progress. But the way you describe it (ie. the cousins' subplots are almost independent), I'm not sure how it's different (in terms of linearity or getting stuck) from having one character and three independent goals to pursue. EDIT: I see how it allows tighter narrative(s), though.
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Old 02-16-2006, 09:29 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal
"Playing DOTT is my life's mission, Dave, but you wouldn't believe the difficulty I'm having finding a copy! You wouldn't happen to have a spare lying around, would you?"


I do have a copy. It just happens to be in German.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP
But the way you describe it (ie. the cousins' subplots are almost independent), I'm not sure how it's different (in terms of linearity or getting stuck) from having one character and three independent goals to pursue.
Variety. It gives the gameplay more momentum than if you just had one guy who has to go all over the place to get a laundry list of things done before he can progress.
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Old 02-16-2006, 11:41 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP
...Gobliiins series, Schizm, Fahrenheit. "To some degree" (ie. at one or two points in the whole game only) Gabriel Knight 2, Broken Sword 3 and certainly several others I can't think of right now.
The amateur adventure, Frasse and the Peas of Keijick, also features switchable characters. I wonder if there are other non-commercial games which do?

I like the approach when it's done well. It can help the right game feel more open and fresh.
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Old 02-16-2006, 12:10 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AG Preview
If you weren't a fan of the chase sequences in Out from Boneville, you're probably more than a little apprehensive of the pinnacle event in the second game: the cow race. I won't give away exactly what they've done, but I can say that Telltale has created a series of little puzzles that occur during the race, yet don't require lightning-speed reflexes. And the way the cows' udders swing as they run is hilarious.
That one was awesome to read, both because it sounds like a really good improvement. But also because it sounds very close to what I wrote on TellTale's forums after playing the first one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
They were, to be blunt, boring. The game has all this fancy cinematography throughout, and then we're stuck with a top-view of an exciting Rat Creature chase?

IMO this should've been a simpler action game (where you only control the characters jumping, not his position on the screen) with a more cinematic camera. Better yet, it could've incorporated some puzzles, like point-n-clickin' the right way through the valley while running. Couple this with some good cinematography and animation, and you'd have something loads better, I think.
It really sounds like they've listened to everything the fans have been saying, and improved on that. I'm wondering if they're going to have proper music mixing this time 'round. The music had the problem of never actually fitting in with the mood the game was trying to set up.
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Old 02-16-2006, 12:30 PM   #33
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That was a great preview. It kept making me really want to play the game, until I remembered I'd already played it Good stuff.

The character switching works very similarly to DOTT's, nearly identically in fact. If you're playing as Fone, icons of Phoney and Smiley are always on screen and you can click them to switch around between characters at will through large parts of the game. Unlike DOTT the three characters can't "flush" inventory items to each other - their paths don't actually cross all that often (if ever, aside from Phoney and Smiley being able to talk to each other through the door of the tavern) - but actions you take as one character will often help another character along.
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Old 02-16-2006, 01:22 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fov
Variety. It gives the gameplay more momentum than if you just had one guy who has to go all over the place to get a laundry list of things done before he can progress.
Good point. Especially in a shorter game like Bone, such variety is welcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doroposo
The amateur adventure, Frasse and the Peas of Keijick, also features switchable characters. I wonder if there are other non-commercial games which do?
Now that you mention it, Two of a Kind. And to my previous list I should add Suspended, an Infocom's classic. (both have this cooperation-required approach rather than separate-storylines one. I haven't played Frasse yet, so I'm not sure if that's what you were asking about.)
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