[Jake]

Originally Posted by Jackal

I think what we're discussing here is not justifying ourselves before a court of public opinion, where such discussions some times (ahem) get dragged out, debated and argued indefinitely - not because the ongoing argument is useful, but simply because people CAN. It's an unfortunate reality, but it's the real reality.

Heh! Sorry, I really like that this thread has in fact now included both sides of the "town cop" coin. Mods mod excessively because they can, readers drag discussions off into argumentative oblivion ad nauseum because they can.

Fortunately, to me, neither of those claims sound like the AG forum. They sound 100% like the reader/mod dynamics of the worst web forums I've visited, but it really doesn't accurately describe AG's community to me at all. Sure, it happens every now and then (the occasional occurrance is pretty inevitable, we are all human beings after all), but it's not the prevailing attitude or MO of the readers of the mods around here, I don't think.

[After a brisk nap]

Originally Posted by tabacco

No offense, but if you can't be bothered to follow a thread you shouldn't really be complaining if it's closed.

I didn't mean that people would necessarily complain. I meant that they would experience the moderator action as mysterious and possibly arbitrary. This impression would then form background to how they'd interpret future actions.

My point was simply that if you're thinking "whenever we do something, it's obvious why we do it," you may be deluding yourself. I think it's often far less clear to others than it is to you.

So I encourage you: Don't assume we'll understand something you're not saying explicitly. Don't assume we'll understand something you said three weeks ago. Don't assume we'll understand something you explained in another thread. If you expect us to understand, you pretty much have to tell us right now, right here.

That's just a piece of advice. Take it or leave it.

My impression is that we're all in pretty good understanding now. I personally wouldn't mind if the discussion ended here (though that doesn't mean I think the thread should be closed).

[Jake]

To add a little to what I said earlier (now that I've read the entire thread) I think it's good that Fum started this thread, if only because he was clearly concerned for the community.

I don't personally think bringing it up was necessary - the only incidents that have been brought up as excessive modding were to me exceptions to the otherwise very-adhered-to rule more than they are indicitive of a growing trend or something - but whatever.

The thread exists only because he cared enough about the community to write it.

-----

Frankly what bothers me in this thread far more than the claims of excessive modding is the fact that this thread was deliberately hijacked and turned into a half-page discussion about cheese, and then later again deliberately turned into a multi-post discussion about chocolate. Seriously, we have a chit chat forum.

[fov]

Originally Posted by Snarky

It may seem obvious to a mod why a thread is being closed, but someone who maybe hasn't followed it that closely may not realize that a 20-page thread is being closed because of an argument that happened on pages 3-5.

That's pretty unlikely to happen around here. If an argument ended on page 5 and the thread had 15 pages of happy shiny posting afterward, there's really no reason to close it.

EDIT: Oops, I didn't see page 5 of this thread.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Mods can't - and shouldn't have to - necessarily guess how future interlocutors may feel about a closed thread when they happen to come across it. I don't subscribe to this 'walking on eggshells' m.o. just to save some face for the community down the road. And still, on the other side of the fence as a forum member, why should I freak out just because I wasn't there at the moment some thread got closed and automatically assume the mods intervened just 'cause they felt like it or were bored and wanted to abuse their powers?

I would just think that at the time a thread was closed it must have been for a good reason as deemed by the acting mod at the time. Whether or not that reason was justifiable wouldn't be my concern as a forum member now. After all, I just got here, didn't I?

Originally Posted by Jake

The thread exists only because he cared enough about the community to write it.

To be blunt, then, I don't think he expressed his care that well...

Originally Posted by Fum

This forum is falling into a “town cop” syndrome....

Wouldn't it have made more sense to have instead stated:

Is this forum falling into a "town cop" syndrome?

Well, however he wants to word it, no. This forum is not falling into a "town cop" syndrome...

[Intrepid Homoludens]

That's exactly how I feel as well, Maxsie. And how some others here feel.

[squarejawhero]

Bicerin for all!

[Fairygdmther]

Having grown up in a smallish town, there's another side to the town cop - and that's a good side. Knowing all the kids who live there, he tends to keep an eye on them and helps keep many of them from getting in trouble. He may seem harsh on some more than others, but knowing them by their past behavior, he'll know better who to advise and who to threaten. While this may seem arbitrary to the casual observer, I feel it is a more appropriate way to handle the kids and more appropriate to make that comparison here.

Lynsie

I understand that some might disagree with the mods' methods. Sometimes, I find myself doing so. But I realize that they have a job to do and they want to make the forums as friendly and constructive as possible. And if they close a thread or two to uphold that image, that's fine with me. I'm all for it.

[Fum]

Trep, have you read past the first page, man? I agree I didn't make it as clear as I should have in the first post, but I think I was pretty explicitly clear in the next half-dozen posts that this forum isn't under this fake syndrome, and probably isn't falling under it, but I care about this place enough to try and keep things cool here.

You of most of all people here (you've always seemed to be one of the most level-headed persons here) should be able to look past admittedly ill-conceived titles to the content inside.

And thank you very much, Jake, for the support. I agree and have stated that the "syndrome" doesn't describe this place, and I just want it to stay that way. Plus, as I already said I have already said in the first post, the post probably wasn't necessary to begin with, I think everyone here is intelligent enough to make sure on their own that things won’t go sour here like many other forums I know of, but nor do I think me starting this thread will have any negative repercussions either, and at least one person will feel better for having spoken his mind.

I feel like a broken record, guys. Maybe I should just copy and paste all of my posts in this thread into the original post, to save my fingers some time in the future.

[squarejawhero]

Zabaglione for all!

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Fum

Trep, have you read past the first page, man? I agree I didn't make it as clear as I should have in the first post, but I think I was pretty explicitly clear in the next half-dozen posts that this forum isn't under this fake syndrome, and probably isn't falling under it, but I care about this place enough to try and keep things cool here.

You of most of all people here (you've always seemed to be one of the most level-headed persons here) should be able to look past admittedly ill-conceived titles to the content inside.

Not only have I read it, I've read it several times to make sure I got it. And I still think you weren't exactly clear in your point. Whatever inflammatory and slightly elitist behaviour you may have interpreted is simply that - an interpretation. You also stated that most of all you posted it because you were just bored at the time.

That said, I do understand and appreciate your concern for this community.

But as I also had stated, one or two incidents do not necessarily tell the overall story. I've been a member here for five years now, and a mod for two years (more or less), and not once have I noticed any instances of 'town cop-ism'. Like I said, threads have been closed for whatever reasons that made sense and were justifiable at the time a mod/admin made them. But as Fairgdmther wisely put it, the mods/admin are here a lot so they know the members well and because of that they know...

...them by their past behavior, [they] know better who to advise and who to threaten. While this may seem arbitrary to the casual observer, I feel it is a more appropriate way to handle the kids and more appropriate to make that comparison here.

[pinkgothic]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

And I still think you weren't exactly clear in your point.

I just wanted to add to this quick: I didn't really read out the "this forum isn't that in my impression" anywhere, either... so, Fum, if that was your intention, then I'm sorry for misinterpreting your posts, but it really wasn't clear to me that that is your statement until you just explicitely said it to Trep... but then, maybe, the title of the thread has biased me reading the posts?

[Fum]

Originally Posted by pinkgothic

I just wanted to add to this quick: I didn't really read out the "this forum isn't that in my impression" anywhere, either... so, Fum, if that was your intention, then I'm sorry for misinterpreting your posts, but it really wasn't clear to me that that is your statement until you just explicitely said it to Trep... but then, maybe, the title of the thread has biased me reading the posts?

"...the main point I want to clear up is that the problems I cited are pertinent to this forum least of all those I visit."

"It's not an epidemic, I know, in fact in my first paragraph I acknowledged that the post really wasn't necessary..."

"And Legolas, if you had read all the posts, you'd see that I also have agreed a few times that this forum isn't under my purely imaginational 'syndrome.'"

-All me. A couple examples I found from merely skimming over my posts, only the last one of them being "explicit" I guess.

[pinkgothic]

... um, Fum, the apology wasn't sarcasm. I didn't extra go back to read your posts extra to make the last statement- in fact, I was specifically avoiding doing that so I could simply make the statement that following this thread didn't give me the impression and that it might have been the thread title biasing me in reading posts - and I mentioned it so you might know it for future reference, and possibly be clearer from square one.

So, um... quoting yourself really doesn't change what I said...

I hope I'm clearer now?

[Intrepid Homoludens]

ROFL!! Okay, that's enough misIntrepiding! I think the man made his point.

Trep, when is your vacation over?

[Fum]

Originally Posted by pinkgothic

... um, Fum, the apology wasn't sarcasm. I didn't extra go back to read your posts extra to make the last statement- in fact, I was specifically avoiding doing that so I could simply make the statement that following this thread didn't give me the impression and that it might have been the thread title biasing me in reading posts - and I mentioned it so you might know it for future reference, and possibly be clearer from square one.

So, um... quoting yourself really doesn't change what I said...

I hope I'm clearer now?

Oh... Um... Well, now we're even, then. We've both misunderstood each other.

[bigjko]

Am I alone in thinking the forum's actually all too mellow, these days?

I mean, gone are the days of newbie bashing, real thread hi-jacking and some serious wacky shit. Or maybe I'm just getting.. gasp.. old?