[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by Once A Villain

Well, that's actually a good question. Perhaps it does a bit, but not entirely. Some films will always make tears come to my eyes, no matter what. The type of "emotional" movies I have grown immune to are the ones Hollywood generally puts out. You know the type...the sappy, crappy stuff where the music hits an enormous crescendo as someone is dying and people are crying...that sort of manipulation doesn't phase me (in fact I've involuntarily started laughing). But films that earn their emotion through the characters, the images, etc...that moves me.

Also, I must admit I have a single weakness when it comes to the emotion I feel in films. It's very personal, and has little to do with the quality of the work itself. When I was seven years old my father died, and my stepdad wasn't the greatest by any means... So, I always get very sad in movies when there's some sort of father and son bonding. Like in October Sky, for instance, which I mentioned earlier in this thread. The main character's father wants him to be a miner and believes he's just living in a fantasy land if he thinks he can design rockets. By the end of the movie though, the father begins to believe in his son. That kind of thing is like a cheap shot in my case...it always works.

I abhor being emotionally manipulated (which is why I watch very little network TV) so I can understand that. But, having said that, I probably cry at movies that other people would think is stupid. I always cry at the end of Breakfast at Tiffanys (the novella ended differently and I know Truman Capote was not happy with Blake Edwards) even though it's a predictable ending. I think it's because I want a happy ending even if it's the cowardly way to end a movie.

[samIamsad]

Recently seen: Dead Man Walking. *shivers*

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Melanie68

I abhor being emotionally manipulated (which is why I watch very little network TV) so I can understand that. But, having said that, I probably cry at movies that other people would think is stupid. I always cry at the end of Breakfast at Tiffanys (the novella ended differently and I know Truman Capote was not happy with Blake Edwards) even though it's a predictable ending. I think it's because I want a happy ending even if it's the cowardly way to end a movie.

I think I must have been a waterfall in a past life because I too cry (or at least tear up) at many movie scenes where most other people don't. I can't help it, I'm a terminal humanist. I think I may be the perfect man most women dream about because I'm sensitive and easily touched.

(the novella ended differently and I know Truman Capote was not happy with Blake Edwards)

Capote originally wrote it with Marilyn Monroe in mind. And the novella's ending, I figure, wasn't cinematic enough (not melodramatic enough). I loved how it began, though, with a photograph of one of Golightly's swains posing next to an African sculpture in Africa that bore a striking resemblance to Holly. The story spiralled out from there.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

I just watched Closer this afternoon.

squaresie, you there? Yoohoo, squaresie!!!!

[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

I think I must have been a waterfall in a past life because I too cry (or at least tear up) at many movie scenes where most other people don't. I can't help it, I'm a terminal humanist. I think I may be the perfect man most women dream about because I'm sensitive and easily touched.



Capote originally wrote it with Marilyn Monroe in mind. And the novella's ending, I figure, wasn't cinematic enough (not melodramatic enough). I loved how it began, though, with a photograph of one of Golightly's swains posing next to an African sculpture in Africa that bore a striking resemblance to Holly. The story spiralled out from there.

I love, love, love Audrey Hepburn. I loved her description of the 'mean reds' ("the mean reds are horrible. Suddenly you're scared and you don't know why")-i get those once in a while. I also love 'Cat.' The poor slob without a name. Hearing the the music of 'Moon River' gives me chills and makes me want to cry. Oh, I could go on but I must stop and go watch it again. I feel the need now.



<grabs video of 'Breakfast at Tiffanys'.>

[squarejawhero]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

I just watched Closer this afternoon.

squaresie, you there? Yoohoo, squaresie!!!!

Try breaking up with Big R and then watching it. Man, I hated that film when I saw it because it was too good... and I really didn't need to be put through an emotional grinder! What did you think anyhow?

BTW that also points to a big "yes" and me being emotionally affected by movies. I'm also a big Tiffany's fan, and have a framed picture of Audrey on my wall!

And The Order's alright is it? If it's got the lovely Shannyn in, then it might worth be watching!

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by Once A Villain

I love Mulholland Drive, but yeah A LOT of people don't get it. It makes perfect sense. I actually wrote a thing several years ago about what it meant and posted it in a forum. It was hilarious, everyone was like, "Oh thank you so much! It's a brilliant movie now!" LOL.

I thought it was brilliant when I first saw it, even though I didn't get it. And I still find it brilliant now that I think I understand it.

Some point remain very cloudy, though, so I'm very interested in your (or anyone else's) explanation. Maybe a new thread would be better, though. Hm...

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by squarejawhero

I preferred Lost Highway. Mulholland Drive felt "cheap" to me, but perhaps I need to give it another chance.

Cheap? In which way?

I loved both, but I'd have a hard time saying which one I like best, seeing as they're two sides of the same thing. Lost Highway is stronger, darker, crazier, but Mulholland Drive is more beautiful and emotional...
Man, I must watch me some Lynch movies again.

[squarejawhero]

It just feels like watching a cheap television movie with overly painted ladies in.

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by squarejawhero

It just feels like watching a cheap television movie with overly painted ladies in.

I'm not sure how it could possibly feel that way, but... oh well. (and yes, you should give it another chance )

[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by squarejawhero

BTW that also points to a big "yes" and me being emotionally affected by movies. I'm also a big Tiffany's fan, and have a framed picture of Audrey on my wall!

You have good taste. She was such an exceptional woman all around. Have you ever seen Two for the Road. Directed by Stanley Donan (he also did Charade with Audrey and Cary Grant). Then there is Roman Holiday (on location-Rome is gorgeous in this film and such a bittersweet ending) and Sabrina (better than the remake-although I don't dislike the remake). I'd better stop now.

And The Order's alright is it? If it's got the lovely Shannyn in, then it might worth be watching!

A very interesting movie. The lovely Shannyn is in it. I found it interesting that she made 2 movies with Heath Ledger but I haven't seen her in anything else. I did find her incredibly striking when I first saw her in Knight's Tale (I'm straight too). I couldn't take my eyes off her when she was on screen. I totally agree with you on the use of the David Bowie song.

[pinkgothic]

Originally Posted by Once A Villain

Some films will always make tears come to my eyes, no matter what. The type of "emotional" movies I have grown immune to are the ones Hollywood generally puts out. You know the type...the sappy, crappy stuff where the music hits an enormous crescendo as someone is dying and people are crying...that sort of manipulation doesn't faze me (in fact I've involuntarily started laughing).

I'd agree with you except it does not always hold true - the not fazing. Not because it has it's intended effect in the direct sense - but I see what happens, I imagine how it would be if the people were real (or acted that way), and then it touches me.

For example, I could never stand "Titanic", but it still made me cry at the time.

[Once A Villain]

Originally Posted by Ninth

I thought it was brilliant when I first saw it, even though I didn't get it. And I still find it brilliant now that I think I understand it.

Some point remain very cloudy, though, so I'm very interested in your (or anyone else's) explanation. Maybe a new thread would be better, though. Hm...

I'll try to dig up my little explanation tomorrow. As of right now, I need to go to bed. Tonight was a little freaky. I got into an altercation at a club and these guys were threatening the use of firearms and knives... They started the problem so they were kicked out, and me and my buddies thought they might be waiting outside for us at closing time. They weren't though. Anyway, I'm glad to be home with no bullet holes or stab wounds in me,

[Kolzig]

Originally Posted by Ninth

I loved both, but I'd have a hard time saying which one I like best, seeing as they're two sides of the same thing. Lost Highway is stronger, darker, crazier, but Mulholland Drive is more beautiful and emotional...
Man, I must watch me some Lynch movies again.

I agree.
Also I have to say that Mulholland Drive is the only movie ever that I have went to see more than once to the movie theaters. And I still didn't figure out the end part of the movie...

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by Kolzig

I agree.
Also I have to say that Mulholland Drive is the only movie ever that I have went to see more than once to the movie theaters. And I still didn't figure out the end part of the movie...

What do you meanby "the end part"? The moment when the names switch?

[Kolzig]

Hmm yeah. Almost like everything after the "there is no band" scene.

[Ninth]

My explanation of the ending is that...

Spoiler:

It's the real part, and the rest of the movie is some kind of fiction that the blond girl invents while dying to replace the gritty truth. In this fiction the woman she's in love with, and who rejects her in the real life is falls in love with her, and needs her help. In this fiction she's the one the producer wants to use for the role, but can't, due to mafia pressure. In this fiction the woman she loves isn't killed because of her. Etc...

Of course, you may already have figured that out. (or something else completely )

And in any case, that leaves a lot to explain.

[Once A Villain]

This is it (no paragraphs and all, lol). I wrote this like 4 years ago, I'm not even sure I'd have exactly the same take on it now since I haven't seen it in over two years. But here's my old explanation of Mulholland Drive:


Ok, for people that saw this movie and just don't get it...here's what's up. You have to watch closely. This is an intelligent, deep film where the visuals hold the key in many cases. In other words, if you just listen to the dialogue you will get nowhere. David Lynch as a director understands that movies are a visual medium so the majority of his clues lie within what you SEE on the screen.

Spoiler:

- In the first two sequences of the film, before the main credits, you see a blonde girl winning a Jitterbug contest. The old people with her are the judges of the contest (they could be her parents, but I doubt she would "dream" of them as a random old couple she met on a plane later if that were the case...it works either way). Anyway, they choose her as the winner and as we later discover, this was what gave her the confidence to go out to L.A. to make it as an actress. Now, the second shot is the most important because we hear very tired breathing as the camera moves up a bed, up to the pillow, and zooms into the pillow. This is something almost everyone misses or just doesn't comprehend, but what it means is: What follows is a DREAM, until a certain point.

- Look at the last parts of the film where Diane (the blonde girl that won the contest) explains her situation. This is truth. From the point where the Cowboy says, "Time to wake up pretty girl" the dream ends, and the reality begins. Diane won the jitterbug contest, her aunt died and left her some money, she's been living in that little apartment house in L.A., she met Camilla (dark headed girl) at an audition, they began a physical relationship (notice the clothes the girls wear, the unromantic way in which the second sexual scene takes place, and the more "pornographic" music), and Diane became obsessed with Camilla. She loved her, but she was also envious of her. Camilla was the big success, and not for her talent alone, but also the flirtatious way in which she did things. She probably slept with directors and co-stars with regularity. She finally snags a fine one, the director Adam Kesher (the main guy in the film), and they decide to marry. Diane, in a fit of rage, hires a hit man to kill Camilla. She pays him a great deal of money and the hitman says that she'll find a blue key when the job is done. He takes Camilla up to Mulholland Dr. and kills her.

- The entire first part of the film is a fantasy, Diane's dream. It takes place after Camilla's death (because when Diane wakes up her neighbor actually says there are some detectives looking for her, AND the blue key is on the table, signifying completion of the "hit"). Diane's dream world is bizarre, as dreams will be, and yet it has very distinct echoes of her reality and her fantasies. She imagines a whole new scenario between her and Camilla, where Camilla manages to escape being killed by the hitmen and gets amnesia. She is therefore dependant upon Diane, which she never was in real life...Diane was the dependant one. Not knowing who she is, and Diane being a fan of classic Hollywood, she dreams up the name of Rita (after Rita Hayworth) instead of Camilla. Also, in her dream, she's not Diane, but Betty (a name she saw in the diner, in her real life, when hiring the hitman). She's just arriving in Hollywood, getting a fresh start, staying in a nice apartment that her aunt lives in (though she's dead in real life) and with a landlord who is Adam Kesher's MOTHER in real life! This is the way dreams work. Anything you see in reality can show up in just about any fashion. In Diane's dream Camilla is quite a different girl, and one that now earns the hatred of Kesher since he is being forced to cast her in a role that he doesn't want her for. Diane hates Kesher since he was going to marry Camilla, so in her dream Kesher's wife is sleeping with another man and kicking HIM out (instead of him kicking her out as in real life) and he's on the run from nutty powers behind the scenes in Hollywood. This represents Diane's mistrust of the Hollywood system, which also accounts for why she wanted a fresh start in her dream and why she gets very seductive and passionate in her audition scene (the way the real Camilla would have) instead of playing it clean. Also, in the dream, Betty and Rita fall in love, which is what she always wanted. Note how the sex scene is romantic this time, with low lighting and soft focus. You'll notice that in the dream everything is very "old Hollywood" optimistic. Betty is lit in such a way that makes her look like a 40's movie starlet, she gets to play detective, and she nails an audition perfectly; all that sort of thing. It's very idealized, the dream world. You'll notice that Betty rarely faces anything horrific, only exciting and exhilirating stuff, while Rita and Adam Kesher face all kinds of nightmarish things. Also, the blue key from reality has taken another Hollywood twist in the dream world of Diane...it has become a futuristic looking tool that is inserted into a blue cube. It is the key to reality (this is my take anyhow...). She has to wake up sometime. She has to face the truth about what she has done. The dream, fantastic as it may be, is her quest to do so. When she and Rita reach Silencio, they obtain the blue box. The idea of Silencio...that something doesn't have to be physically there to exist ("there is no band and yet...we hear a band")... She finds her reality in her mind, so it therefore exists physically, manifesting itself in her purse. They take the blue box home and when it is unlocked...Diane awakens. Her dream has ended (though, in a prophetic twist, the corpse they found in her room WILL eventually be her).

- After waking up, we see her true story, her reality...that I've already explained. Unable to cope with the truth that Camilla is dead and the detectives are eventually going to get her...she can think of only two people to blame. The people responsible for her coming to L.A. in the first place. The old man and woman who judged her in the jitterbug contest (or her parents who were heavily involved in her becoming a dancer/actress, if you prefer). Had she not won, she never would have come for she would have lacked the confidence, and NONE of this would have ever happened. Hence, the little people, in the form of the judges, coming after her at the end. And...well...the rest you can figure out yourself.

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by Once A Villain

This is it (no paragraphs and all, lol). I wrote this like 4 years ago, I'm not even sure I'd have exactly the same take on it now since I haven't seen it in over two years. But here's my old explanation of Mulholland Drive:

Yep, pretty much my take on it, only I coulnd't have explained it as well (and some parts like silencio and the mafia-like hollywood weren't so clear to me).

How do you explain the man in the alley, though? And the guys speaking in the cafe?

EDIT: Also, I don't remember exactly how the movie ends (last 5 minutes)...

[gillyruless]

Originally Posted by Ninth

Yep, pretty much my take on it, only I coulnd't have explained it as well.

How do you explain the man in the alley, though? And the guys speaking in the cafe?

Same here.

Spoiler:

But instead of dreaming, the middle part of the movie is Diane's masturbatory fantasy. She did truly love Carmilla, and the complex mix of emotions, desire, regret, guilt, etc, she was feeling makes her fantasize about her life turning out differently as she masturbates before killing herself. I did also have some problems with the dirty man as he seems to be disjointed from the rest of Diane's fantasy. After some thoughts, what I concluded is that the dirty man represents the dirtiness, the sliminess of Hollywood or the show business industry. She feels that Hollywood failed her and destroyed her hopes and dreams of succeeding in Hollywood and finding true love.

What I don't get actually is that so may people fail to grasp what sanjuro pointed out. It does take a careful watching but it's not very hard to figure out what is going on. I love David Lynch's movie becasue because of his style in storytelling, you don't get the story spoon-fed to you. You actually have to work to get the story and that helps me to feel closer, more personal to the story. Mulholland Drive is my second favorite David Lynch film after Blue Velvet.