[Terabin]

So a lot of people are starting to get engaged on campus and it's kind of freaking me out. We must discuss this topic, so foreign to me. Actually, I recently got out of a relationship that was getting too serious for me, because I needed to do a lot more growing. It's strange to me that people my age think they are ready to commit the rest of their lives to one other person. In some ways, it seems to be a comfort thing (maybe a love thing too). Anyway.

Even for people who are older, I can imagine that the commitment is still something that is tough to make. For example, my aunt and uncle lived together for fifteen years before getting married, and when they DID get married, it was mostly just to pull people together for a family reunion. They realized that they were most likely going to continue living together, so they might as well get married.

I know there are probably a lot of different opinions on it, since people are in so many different places on this site.

I think the basic place to start is: Does marriage scare you (as it does me)? I think that question could apply to people both inside and outside a marriage quite frankly.


Here's the marriage tree. I like it.

Of course, one response to the marriage tree is to say that love doesn't necessarily make marriage.

[Maquisard]

All my friends and relatives that have been getting married lately just seem to match up with people that don't seem to fit them, or there's just something else that's weird with the whole arrangement. It's either that the said persons are too young, as you've also pointed out, or everything happened so fast. I think you're right about it being a comfort thing, maybe even peer pressure--"all my friends are doing it, I gotta do it too!" It seems like it's especially the girls that yearn to get that sense of security out of marriage. They're always on the prowl, and once they nab a guy, they force him into submission asap! :eek: All the marriages where I've seen older people (25-30) match up have seemed way more natural to me, especially if said persons have been dating for a while. But that's just my cultural slant. Deal with it!

[Elton28]

My stance is a resounding "Yes" to marriage.

If you are with someone you truly love, then marriage is a commitment to that person.

Now theres a word: commitment. Too many people (blokes in particular) are afraid of this word, I think. I for one am not afraid of marriage and I intend on marrying Sarah, my partner, well, my fiance really as I did propose and she said yes!!

I have done all the young "laddish" things: you know, going out all the time, getting pissed and generally causing a nuisance. But I got bored of that and realised I wanted to settle when I saw Sarah in a bar. And to think I chased her for a year!! Persistence certainly pays guys

Now I have been with her for 4 years and I couldn't have a better partner.

So, I cannot wait to be married to her

AF

[Wormsie]

Technically I can't get married to a man, and I don't want to marry a woman. I can register a civil union with a same-sex partner, though, so let's call it marriage anyway. I'm not too keen on the idea of marriage. What's the point? Marriage is so... straight. I'd love to get "officially" engaged, though. Marriage as such doesn't scare me, because I'm never going to do it and it's not even expected of me (this isn't the case with many straight people).

[Quadriflax]

Marriage scares me, and I just got engaged Jan 22nd. We're getting married Oct 1st. Holy hell. I think it's really starting to sink in because we just spent this last Saturday looking for a place. We were dating for almost three and a half years when I gave her the ring. I'm comfortable with my decision, but realize there's a lot of things we need to figure out. She's still in school getting her master's in art education, so things are a little strained financially and emotionally at times. There's a good chance she'll get a job this fall since she knows quite a few people that are going to retire at the end of this school year.

I guess part of the way I look at it is I'm happy to be with her. She's not perfect, but who would be? I'm not perfect either. If anyone has ever watched "High Fidelity" that's pretty much how I look at it. You can always chase after someone else because it's easy to build a fantasy in your head. And that fantasy is perfect. But then you spend more time with the person and realize their flaws and the fantasy is gone. But then someone new comes along and you have more fantasies about them. It could go on forever.

I'm excited about getting married, but also scared because the future is such an unknown. I keep telling myself everything will work out. But I'm such a pessimist it's hard to see things falling into place. I guess that's why I know I should get married to my partner, because that's the only part I can see working out.

[Ninth]

Marriage doesn't scare me.

I think I will marry eventually, because I like the idea of the ceremony and the whole "Mr and Ms" business. But if I was with a girl that doesn't want to marry, I could do without it, too.

[Elton28]

....and I just got engaged Jan 22nd. We're getting married Oct 1st.

Good on yer Quad, hope it all works out for you

I proposed a while back yet we dont have a date set yet; we're never too sure what financial situation we will be in. I took the plunge because I knew that I wanted to be with Sarah.

Yet after almost 7 years in my last relationship, I never once thought of proposing to her. We realised we both wanted different things, so called it a day.

A good relationship is all about compromise; if you have that, then you're on to a winner

AF

[simpson_yellow]

Nah, marriage doesn't really give me the heebie jeebies (how do you spell that?), largely because my partner and myself have never seen much point in it for us. Not to say it's categorically pointless (horses for courses and all that), just that it doesn't suit our situation.

We've been together nearly 9 years now and are about as committed to eachother as we can possibly get (with a dog and a white picket fence etc). We just don't see the need to get a piece of paper as confirmation.

It probably helps (or doesn't help, depending on your perspective) that:
- my partner's feminist ideals run counter to many aspects of the institution of marriage;
- we're both atheists, so have no religious reason to get married; and
- both of our parents are divorced, so we have no pressures from family.

Most of our friends have recently gotten married, and it didn't faze us too much. They're starting to pop out babies now. Now there's something to freak out about :eek:

Notwithstanding the above, my heartfelt congratulations to Elton and Quadriflax!







....suckers

.

[Quadriflax]

Originally Posted by Elton28

Good on yer Quad, hope it all works out for you

Thanks

I proposed a while back yet we dont have a date set yet; we're never too sure what financial situation we will be in. I took the plunge because I knew that I wanted to be with Sarah.

Don't worry about any of that. You already found the most important part of the whole thing. The rest is details. I keep telling my fiancee, Kim, the same thing. She can do whatever she wants for the wedding (for the most part) and I don't really care. At least not in the sense that I'll be upset over anything. Her parents are paying for the whole thing anyway, so I don't even have to worry about cost too much.

I'm also quite unsure of my financial situation. Kim isn't working a full time job as of now since she's going to school at night and also trying to substitute teach for experience. So she's got some hours where she works, but wants to keep things relatively open so she's available to sub when she gets called. Unfortunately you hardly ever have more than a couple hours notice before they call you to see if you're available. My salary will cover the bulk of our monthly costs, but it's difficult to figure things out when her income isn't steady like mine. But we have to take the plunge sometime.

I figure we'll get some cash from the wedding and live out of savings for a while. I've already got a small nest egg saved up so we can maintain that for a couple of years and hopefully she'll have a full time teaching position as early as this fall. Once that happens we'll start looking at getting a house.

Yet after almost 7 years in my last relationship, I never once thought of proposing to her. We realised we both wanted different things, so called it a day.

That's pretty big of the both of you. It's not always easy to something like that, especially after seven years. Some people get caught up in that sunk cost thing and think the only way to proceed after so long is to get married. I'm not totally into marriage myself. I could easily do without. You don't have to have an official piece of paper to pledge your commitment to someone. Weddings are for your friends and families to get together and have some fun. In fact, marriage can totally complicate things legally. I don't anticipate problems in the future, but I'd also be naive to not recognize that 50% of all marriages end in divorce. You never know what can happen. I like to think I communicate everything openly though, and that's important.

A good relationship is all about compromise; if you have that, then you're on to a winner

Compromise, sacrifice, and communication. I couldn't agree more. Not that these are always easy things to maintain. But, that's life. Everything is a chance and you can't control it all. I'm happy with where I am and am happy with our relationship. We have our problems but we've been able to work them out and I'm confident we'll continue to be able to do so. Proposing was only natural after I stopped trying to nitpick everything and realized that not everything I do can be perfectly planned. The best advice I got from a friend was that love isn't supposed to make sense. You feel it or you don't. Trying to explain it is futile. Two months later I had a ring

[pinkgothic]

I'd never marry because it'd turn my dedication and love into an obligation. I'd rather not feel like I have to be nice and sweet to those I love. Some people can do a marriage and ignore that fact - as in, ignore it turned it into an obligation. I couldn't, so it's not for me.

Elton: I think there's a big difference between commitment and commitment. You'd just have to ask BoyToy whether I'm committed to him or not, I'm sure a positive answer would come without hesitation. I think having to fell a decision every day in the matter makes it more of a commitment to me than marriage would (for me) - it may be a subconscious decision, but it's there.

Additionally, I prefer having to 'work hard' to keep someone.

That, and as long as polygamous marriages aren't allowed, I'd not be able to stay true to my relationships.

Okay, so I'm a bit of an oddball I guess, carry on

[Wormsie]

And as long as 'raptors stay extinct...

[artwking4]

Originally Posted by deadworm222

And as long as 'raptors stay extinct...

They ARE pretty committed to staying that way.

[Elton28]

Quad, thanks for all your comments mate. Why can't I have these kind of discussions with my friends???

Unfortunately, we dont have any financial back-up, from either side. Sarah's Dad has loads of money, and we know this. Yet he spends it all on himself and never once has offered money to Sarah. Whereas her brother, is kind and warm hearted and always offers if needed. My side is poor anyway, always has been. Sarah's parents are divorced too. Her Dad is never interested about what she has been up to; he always talks about himself and it pisses me off. He doesn't even know we're engaged.

I know what you mean with the legal thing. Sure it could potentially make things worse. But I am prepared to make that risk, as we both know that we're made for each other (sorry guys, a bit sappy I know ) Neither of us wears the trousers so there is zero bossiness.

Our first hurdle tbh would be to get our own house bought. Problem is, house prices (especially in York) in the UK are rocketing, and unless you earn a very good salary, your out of the market. Thats why we want to move to Scotland. Houses are much more affordable, but the flip side to that is potentially less work; thats where my practicality comes in! Unfortunately, Sarah can be quite naive when it comes to this sort of thing - not assessing the risks first. I will be assessing every available avenue before we move.

The split with my ex was very difficult actually, and deeply upsetting. We were unhappy and no matter what we did, it never changed. We used to have tremendous rows! Besides, I wanted to go back in the Army at the time; so glad I never or I would never have met Sarah!! But I know that she is with someone and is happy now, so I am happy.

Anyway, gotta go and see to the bread I have just baked...smells good (see, a good house husband too)

I'd better put some washing on too then

AF

[Quadriflax]

Originally Posted by Elton28

Unfortunately, we dont have any financial back-up, from either side. Sarah's Dad has loads of money, and we know this. Yet he spends it all on himself and never once has offered money to Sarah. Whereas her brother, is kind and warm hearted and always offers if needed. My side is poor anyway, always has been. Sarah's parents are divorced too. Her Dad is never interested about what she has been up to; he always talks about himself and it pisses me off. He doesn't even know we're engaged.

If it makes you feel better, neither of our families has any money either. The money my future inlaws are using to pay for this is coming from stock they're going to sell. It's not much, but we don't need much. I don't even know if my parents can pay for the rehersal dinner like they're "supposed to." All this nonsense about who's supposed to do what. Bleh.

I know what you mean with the legal thing. Sure it could potentially make things worse. But I am prepared to make that risk, as we both know that we're made for each other (sorry guys, a bit sappy I know ) Neither of us wears the trousers so there is zero bossiness.

I think Kim complements me well. I'm lazy and unmotivated by nature. That might be a bit harsh, but I'll be honest I'm a Type B personality, she's more of a Type A. She gets that from her mother. Thankfully she has enough "B" in her to mellow out enough that I can deal with it. It's constructive. She makes me do things I wouldn't normally do, and it's probably for the best. At the same time I think I give her some peace and the ability to just sit and be still without worrying about things. I also tend to be more logical about stuff, especially money.

Our first hurdle tbh would be to get our own house bought. Problem is, house prices (especially in York) in the UK are rocketing, and unless you earn a very good salary, your out of the market. Thats why we want to move to Scotland. Houses are much more affordable, but the flip side to that is potentially less work; thats where my practicality comes in! Unfortunately, Sarah can be quite naive when it comes to this sort of thing - not assessing the risks first. I will be assessing every available avenue before we move.

I can't afford a house right now either. It's not so much that I couldn't make the payments. In the end they'd probably be about as much as we're going to pay in rent. I just need the security for a few years of knowing if something breaks I don't have to pay to fix it. Plus I'm already going though enough right now that I don't need to add buying a house to the list.

The split with my ex was very difficult actually, and deeply upsetting. We were unhappy and no matter what we did, it never changed. We used to have tremendous rows! Besides, I wanted to go back in the Army at the time; so glad I never or I would never have met Sarah!! But I know that she is with someone and is happy now, so I am happy.

I'm sorry to hear that. At least it worked out in the end. And it was mutual. That's always a plus in these things. Sometimes things just can't be worked out. That's the way it is. Anyone that says otherwise is fooling themselves. The trick is to figure out what worth trying to change and what you shouldn't bother with, or at least when to throw in the towel.

That's not to say I'm an expert on any of this stuff. Preaching something and living it are two different things. But I do firmly believe that talking things out is always the best way to handle just about anything, as long as it's done in a calm and productive manner. Not something I'm always capable of, but I'm much better than I used to be. And I owe a lot of it to my fiance Kim. She has made me a better person, and it's easy to overlook what she's given me. I'm sure it's the same for you, and I hope everyone can be so lucky as to find at least ONE person they can trust and be with. At least, those who want someone like that

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Seems to me that marriage today is ultimately no different than how it was perceived centuries, even millenia, ago. That is, with the exception that back then you were not allow to co-habitate with your partner if you were not married. Marriage back then was more politically based, with the sons and daughters of kings assuring peace and alliances between nations. From then on it became a matter of strengthening and maintaining ties within and between societies and cultures - 'proper' people do not marry outside their 'circle', and arranged marriages were never even questioned. Title and properties also fall under the trappings, and far too often become one of the main reasons for marriage, if not the main reason.

And then there's the idea of marriage as a religious custom, with all its choking and often conflicting notions - secular desires and passions vs. what God wants you to do. Even then marriage as built by religion has its historical roots in political agendas (Catholic rulers not allowed to couple with Protestants under threat of war, etc. etc.).

Only fairly recently (within the past 200 years more or less) did love come into the equation. Now we marry for love, but even that is subject to individual interpretation due to many people preferring not to 'officialize' their union by the tradition of marriage, but instead declaring it in non-traditional ways - moving in together, having kids while not being married, etc.

And then there are same sex couples. I find it interesting how gays and lesbians are using the traditionally heterosexual institution of marriage as a way of declaring their partnership, while the church condemns these kinds of unions, citing the bible, which is of course always open to interpretation - and misinterpretation.

How do I feel about marriage in my case? Ultimately I don't need permission from any church or government when I declare my love and partnership for someone. There is a psychological 'comfort' for that, I understand. But there's also the very high divorce rate, which I also understand to render a joke the supposedly 'sacred' and 'infallible' institution of marriage. I put my personal pledge of love and partnership with my man higher in value than on Marriage (capital 'M'). If my man wants to marry me in a church or at the courthouse, it must be his own personal desire to do so as his declaration of his love for, and partnership with, me. And I will honour that because he means it, not because the church or government means it for him.

[Bastich]

There isn't a chance in Hell I would ever get married.

If the world was suddenly conquered by an alien race and they made it law that you could only have sex if you were married, I'd choose celibacy.

Well, does it really count as celibacy if I make love to myself every single day?

Anyway, I'd just have a 50 gallon drum of KY in my bedroom with a beer tap on it and a quad monitor PC fed by the fattest porn pipe technology could offer...

[SakSquash]

Originally Posted by deadworm222

Technically I can't get married to a man, and I don't want to marry a woman. I can register a civil union with a same-sex partner, though, so let's call it marriage anyway. I'm not too keen on the idea of marriage. What's the point? Marriage is so... straight. I'd love to get "officially" engaged, though. Marriage as such doesn't scare me, because I'm never going to do it and it's not even expected of me (this isn't the case with many straight people).

You should come to my town, they marry gay people all the time. I'm sure you've heard of New Paltz, NY.

[Wormsie]

Originally Posted by temporaryscars

You should come to my town, they marry gay people all the time. I'm sure you've heard of New Paltz, NY.

Actually, no. Is that place in the USA? I feel like I'm not getting a joke.

And as I said, I don't want to get married.

[Elton28]

I think Kim complements me well. I'm lazy and unmotivated by nature. That might be a bit harsh, but I'll be honest I'm a Type B personality, she's more of a Type A. She gets that from her mother. Thankfully she has enough "B" in her to mellow out enough that I can deal with it. It's constructive. She makes me do things I wouldn't normally do, and it's probably for the best. At the same time I think I give her some peace and the ability to just sit and be still without worrying about things. I also tend to be more logical about stuff, especially money.

I know what you mean with this, Quad. Sarah has calmed me down a bit. I'm interested in these "Type A" and "Type B" personalities you speak of. It's not something I have heard of in the UK.

As far as making logical decisions; those are definitely left to me, but we still discuss them first. The money side of things; well, lets say I wish I had met Sarah when I left the Army, then perhaps I would not have the debt I have now. I am not as bad as I used to be, but I still spend money that I do not have. I try to save but my good intentions go to waste. Yet I find talking about money very difficult, as this is one of the things that gets me down the most, especially when I get paid and a third of it dissapears on my debt.
I do listen to what she tells me, I just find it hard to put into practice. When I buy things, its more because I "want" it rather than "need" it.

And then there are same sex couples. I find it interesting how gays and lesbians are using the traditionally heterosexual institution of marriage as a way of declaring their partnership, while the church condemns these kinds of unions, citing the bible, which is of course always open to interpretation - and misinterpretation.

I find this unfair for gay couples and I believe they should have the same rights as non-gay couples. Its so old fashioned that this is frowned upon so much. It seems that if you are gay you are classed as some kind of freak, and should not be allowed to enter into marriage under the eyes of "God" (I'm an Atheist), especially here in the UK; seems a tad more relaxed in the States. I am sure that you love your partner Trep, the same way that I love mine, so why should you be denied the right to marry, even if you DID want to.

There are still far too many old fashioned values in the world today IMO. But then again, who knows what the future may bring?

AF

[Quadriflax]

Originally Posted by Elton28

I know what you mean with this, Quad. Sarah has calmed me down a bit. I'm interested in these "Type A" and "Type B" personalities you speak of. It's not something I have heard of in the UK.

Here's a couple of links that should give you a basic idea as well as a small test you can complete to figure out where your tendencies are.

http://mentalhelp.net/poc/view_index.php?idx=37&id=233

http://www.psych.uncc.edu/pagoolka/TypeA-B-intro.html

As far as making logical decisions; those are definitely left to me, but we still discuss them first. The money side of things; well, lets say I wish I had met Sarah when I left the Army, then perhaps I would not have the debt I have now. I am not as bad as I used to be, but I still spend money that I do not have. I try to save but my good intentions go to waste. Yet I find talking about money very difficult, as this is one of the things that gets me down the most, especially when I get paid and a third of it dissapears on my debt.
I do listen to what she tells me, I just find it hard to put into practice. When I buy things, its more because I "want" it rather than "need" it.

Congratulations! You're human Who among us doesn't spend money on things we don't need? I'm better at doing without than Kim is, but I still cave now and again. I think it's somewhat healthy to do so. If we don't do small things for ourselves now and again we're likely to lose our minds. As long as it doesn't get out of control it's not a problem. I'll give you an example. My friend's wife doesn't have a job while she's going to school. They live about halfway between where she goes to school and where he works, which is about an hour commute one-way for each of them. They spend a ton of money on gas and hardly have any extra income. My friend did his taxes and got a pretty big return. Instead of saving it and using it to makes ends meet, he bought a 42" Widescreen LCD HDTV. When he showed it to me I told him to never complain about money again, because I didn't want to hear it. And of course he had to rent the complementing HDTV box from the cable company so he could use it, so he now has two boxes and a whole mess load of extra channels. I'll be lucky if I can afford basic cable on my 27" TV I bought on sale.

Kim also has some credit card debt as well. A lot of it is from buying books at school. But if she had spent her summers working like I did instead of spending them at her family's cottage she might not have so much. She's in for a bit of a rude awakening when we're finally on our own. Until she gets a steady, full time job things are going to be tight and she's going to have to scale back a lot of things she takes for granted. I talk with her about it often and she gets upset because she thinks I'm lecturing her. I know she's smart, but I still have my concerns about some of the things she spends money on. She also has a car payment every month. My only debt right now is my student loan I'm paying off.

But that's life. As long as we're smart about what we do and what we spend money on we'll be okay. The worst case scenerio is we move to a smaller place and start eating cat food or something. Life wouldn't be worth living without challenges. In the end, everything will work out. I hope...