03-06-2005, 08:12 AM | #21 | |
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Anyway, in he end, it's just a friggin statue, and it should be up to the state to decide. |
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03-06-2005, 08:38 AM | #22 |
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No, the intent of the framers was to have a wall of separation between church and state [meaning government]
In placing the "establishment clause" in the constitution - It was Thomas Jeffersons deliberate intent that it was there to keep secular and non-secular matters apart. He wrote a letter to those working on the constituional drafts with him the following, "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. Because it is one of the few areas that the founders were quite explicit in their intent - this is why the courts have ruled so uniformly over the centuries - despite the political tilt of any particular court - against government establishment or acts that seem to favor one religion or any religion at all. This isn't something evolved through court decision - it is one of the rare clearly stated articles in the Constitution. |
03-06-2005, 08:48 AM | #23 | |
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03-06-2005, 09:00 AM | #24 | |
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The Constitution is there to have stablility in law so that our laws do not change from season to season based upon the ever changing and easily influenced ideas of the majority. I would not want my rights decided by whatever majority happened to be in play at the moment. Also we live in a nation of "states" What a legal nightmare if every state had it's own self-determined set of rights. Finally, in terms of logic, if you claim there is no harm in displaying the 10 commandments - yet it offends [obviously as expressed by opponents to these documents being displayed] certain other religions or beliefs not grounded in judaic-christian biblical laws, a more logical question is what harm occurs if they are not displayed? I can't think of any harm that falls on the courts, people or states by not having this document displayed. Of course if there were some compelling reason why the absence of this document or religious laws would cause harm, that might be at least a logical argument for having them. Right now I just see a preference for them at stake. |
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03-06-2005, 09:13 AM | #25 | ||
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It's the democratic system. Majority rules. I guess if you believe that all people are inherantly evil, then that may be a problem for you, but I don't believe that. But you're right about the purpose of the consitiution, but like I said, it does not state the idea of seperation of Church and state. And god forbid anyone get offended these days. I personally LIKE to be offended, because it provokes thought. And if there are a lot of people offended by it, then fine, take it down, but like someone once said to me: Quote:
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03-06-2005, 09:27 AM | #26 | |
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03-06-2005, 09:36 AM | #27 | |
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03-06-2005, 09:36 AM | #28 |
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Majority rules only in voting and elections. And not always even then
Laws are in place generally for the minority (whoever it happens to be that week) or to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. The Majority doesn't need laws to back it up - it is the majority Hey, that is a good quote, like the source on that myself. |
03-06-2005, 09:42 AM | #29 | |
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03-06-2005, 12:49 PM | #30 | |
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03-06-2005, 01:26 PM | #31 | |
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03-07-2005, 05:26 AM | #32 | |
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03-07-2005, 07:31 AM | #33 | |
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You're right (had my dates reversed ) My mistake. |
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03-07-2005, 07:36 AM | #34 | |
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Thomas Jefferson, as president, wrote a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association of Connecticut on 1802-JAN-1. It contains the first known reference to the "wall of separation". The essay states in part: "...I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State..." During the 1810's, President James Madison wrote an essay titled "Monopolies" which also refers to the importance of church-state separation. He stated in part: "Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history." |
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03-07-2005, 07:50 AM | #35 |
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Yes. And what's more, Trep's absolutely right about the fact that no one should have to fund any religious display, period. This was also quite clearly the intent of the First Amendment itself. The religion clauses of the First Amendment were based on the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, which Jefferson and Madison drafted and got passed. You can read more about that bill here.
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03-07-2005, 03:41 PM | #36 | |
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03-07-2005, 04:20 PM | #37 |
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If that's the case why not have reproductions of all the religious documents available for witnesses to swear on according to their faith? It's democratic, yes? If the witness wants, he can swear on the bible, or the Koran, whatever he wants.
Or the best option of all, you get to swear on a copy of the U.S. Constitution itself.
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03-07-2005, 06:58 PM | #38 | |
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03-09-2005, 02:09 PM | #39 | |
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03-09-2005, 03:39 PM | #40 |
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I still like the idea of swearing on the U.S. Constitution. It's kinda like you're up against the entire country, and they're saying, "Don't even THINK of f#&king with us. UNDERSTAND?!!!"
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