[tabacco]

How is it that Enterprise ran this long while Firefly was cancelled after less than one season? It's just not fair

Oh well, at least there's Serenity to look forward to.

[ConcreteRancor]

Originally Posted by mag

I don't think that's it. Star Trek has really NEVER had any kind of internal consistency. So there's not much of a timeline to mess up. Besides, you'd have to watch the whole show to see whether all this stuff fits with the rest of the Star Trek universe or not.

Yeah, it's like saying that newer Simpsons episodes keep contradicting the geographical layout of Springfield. There's not supposed to BE one, so you don't have to worry about it.

[emma]

Originally Posted by mag

Star Trek has really NEVER had any kind of internal consistency. So there's not much of a timeline to mess up.

hehehehe! Well - that'd be the die-hard trekkies prevailing notion when reading around, I always tended to be less harsh about consistancy ST-universe issues.

However - I felt that Enterprise made some neck-straining twists and turns along the way that may have left people feeling lost and out of the loop. Desperate, comes to mind when a show loses track of itself to that degree. I much would have prefered the chance of the original story lines to have evoluted, and that the creators would have had the guts to stick with their guns. Even changing the song was a bit of a let-down for me, making what was first one thing into a completely different thing.

I don't agree that Voyager is the culprit for Enterprise's demise, I feel that Enterprise has it's own faults that caused that.

It's really interesting that the various shows creates different "camps" when stemming from the same franchise! I dare say I love both Voayger and DS9 equally, both first two seasons being a miss. Of course, paradoxically, you need the first two seasons to know the characters, hahahaha, but still!

[Maquisard]

Originally Posted by jjacob

And judging from yesterday's episode, which was excellent, they were planning for a lengthy Romulan arc, too bad we'll probably not see the end of it. Goddamnit, this would've been good, Romulans are excellent bad guys.

Actually, the format of the 4th season is having a series of 3-4 episode story arcs. So far there's been the end of temporal cold war arc, eugenics arc, the vulcan revolution arc, and dunno what else (all of which I haven't seen yet). The trick is, they give you exciting, well rounded episodes, but still end them with a cliff-hanger, to get you back next week. This recent Romulan arc really is among the best trek I've ever seen. I like how immature and bickery the new alliance is. That's really cashing in on the prequel concept.

[Crunchy in milk]

Originally Posted by mag

Hey, shut up. I like Scrubs.

It's not possible, do you watch re-runs of The Wonder Years too? Its like they took the worst elements of The Wonder Years (everything?) and set it in a medical negligence prone hospital chock full of stereotypes who all experience a severe case of Groundhog day ala Bill Murray (Despite the trite observations of life 'newbie' makes about himself and those around him, NO ONE EVER $@%^ing CHANGES).

If you watch an episode frame by frame they sometimes leave in shots of the cast reading their lines out of '1001 jokes to tell at parties', I swear I'm convinced the majority of the audience for Scrubs are young males eager for some tidbit of sexual innuendo involving Elliot week after week.

[Ninja Dodo]

Scrubs is hilarious.

[tabacco]

Originally Posted by Crunchy in milk

I'm convinced the majority of the audience for Scrubs are young males eager for some tidbit of sexual innuendo involving Elliot week after week.

Oh, that's a great way to end an argument. It's guaranteed to make you lots of friends on a forum full of Scrubs fans.

[jjacob]

Originally Posted by Mares

Actually, the format of the 4th season is having a series of 3-4 episode story arcs. So far there's been the end of temporal cold war arc, eugenics arc, the vulcan revolution arc, and dunno what else (all of which I haven't seen yet). The trick is, they give you exciting, well rounded episodes, but still end them with a cliff-hanger, to get you back next week. This recent Romulan arc really is among the best trek I've ever seen. I like how immature and bickery the new alliance is. That's really cashing in on the prequel concept.

I agree, plus that Andorian guy kicks ass and that ugly new bastard (the other alliance alien) is also a pretty decent character and that whole alliance just has 'difficult' written all over it. But I seriously think this Romulan thing is going to span alot more episodes - there hasn't even been 'contact' yet and these Romulans look and act real war-hungry. Let's just say I don't think there will be peace any time soon, but I hope they atleast make this arc end with the last aired episode in may.

[100ja a.k.a. mr_mitja]

I still haven't watched Enterprise after season one, but that was a disaster if you ask me. I believe most of the people are now bored to death with star trek... So no real loss here for me.
Oh, my list:
1. TNG
2. TOS
3. DS9
4. Voyager
- Enterprise - I'm not in position to rank it

And Voyager is the lamest of all, the actors are worst ever, I feel there wasn't a likeable character in the entire show. Starting with the captain...

[Erwin_Br]

Originally Posted by 100ja a.k.a. mr_mitja

And Voyager is the lamest of all, the actors are worst ever, I feel there wasn't a likeable character in the entire show. Starting with the captain...

Not even Seven of Nine!?!?

--Erwin

[RLacey]

Originally Posted by Erwin_Br

Not even Seven of Nine!?!?

--Erwin

Or the doctor? It's an important tradition, making sure that there's a British person in the cast ...

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Originally Posted by Erwin_Br

I like Voyager better than DS9 .

Man, I can't say that enough

--Erwin

Ugggh...Voyager was the worst of the lot. Lost in space without the comedy.

DS9 i'd say was even better than TNG, because it dealt more in reality, TNG was this nearly uber-utopia which you know was totally bogus, DS9 dealt with the dark side of the galaxy and with War, hatred, racism, terrorism, all the stuff that has been a part of human society since its birth.

[100ja a.k.a. mr_mitja]

Originally Posted by Erwin_Br

Not even Seven of Nine!?!?

--Erwin

I will only say that she looks better with those implants than without them. As for the doctor, he was the only reason I watched the show (and Kes), but Kes transformed and went away, and the doctor was so hyped by the end of the series (like for example "the singing episode") that he made me sick.

[Erwin_Br]

Originally Posted by Avinash_Tyagi

Ugggh...Voyager was the worst of the lot. Lost in space without the comedy.

DS9 i'd say was even better than TNG, because it dealt more in reality, TNG was this nearly uber-utopia which you know was totally bogus, DS9 dealt with the dark side of the galaxy and with War, hatred, racism, terrorism, all the stuff that has been a part of human society since its birth.

Ugggh... DS9 was the worst of the lot. As the World Turns without uh... um... without something that makes soap opera's good. (Can't think of anything at the moment)

DS9 was bad because it dealt too much with the boring reality. At least TNG has this great, and original, vision of a peaceful future instead of the dozens of SCIFI series/movies that deal with War, hatred, racism, terrorism, and more of all the stuff that you already see every day.



No, but seriously; I do admire Roddenberry's vision very much.

--Erwin

[Supreme Goddess]

I"m going to scare you all now and confess that I was in junior school when Star Trek (TOS) first aired and what a fantastic modern ground-breaking show it was back then. Very dynamic and sexy captain and girls in ultra short skirts. LOL

So I have watched them all ~ in order. Except this Enterprise. For some jackass reason they have managed to avoid screening an entire series in Australia. I'm damned if I can pick up the storyline now. So if they are suffering lack of fans it's their own marketing fault.

Plus, Enterprise lacks a charismatic captain. Archer looks like he needs an enema. Trip the spunky engineer simply wouldn't manage to stay that celebate in real life. They ought to give them more of a soap opera feel - make it character driven instead of alien device based.

Deep Space Nine was the best written of them all. Really tops for character development.

The doctor from Voyager and Seven of Nine really stole that show from the rest of them.

[Marek]

I never quite get why DS9 is seen as a soap opera. You can say that DS9 is boring, especially if you don't follow it closely, or if you've only seen season 1 and 2, but a soap opera it is not.

Sure, we get to see some family moments with Sisko (with his son, and later his wife too) and default family man O'Brien. The series also spends a lot of time fleshing out the buddy relation between O'Brien and Bashir, and the relationship between Odo and Kira, etc. But that's character building. And DS9 is a character show. I think DS9 does it in a more truthful way than Voyager, which keeps saying it's a big family, but their relationships stay superficial, even though they're lost in space and should probably be without hope and only have each other etc. etc. The relationships have to stay somewhat superficial because Voyager is very episodic and plot-oriented, which is fun in a sort of "hey it gives me entertainment" kind of way, but doesn't often go very deep.

Have you followed the war arcs, the whole geopolitical game in the later seasons, the Cardassian/Bajoran history with genocide and the ironic role reversals, the revealing of Section 31, the occupation of Bajor and DS9 in season 6,etc. etc. ? DS9 is far from some sort of wishy washy soap. It's a show with balls.

Now, if all you meant is that DS9 requires regular following to enjoy it, which is also true of a soap, then I agree. But that's the only characteristic it shares with soap series.

This just in: the new coffee machine is being installed at work.

[Erwin_Br]

Originally Posted by Marek

I never quite get why DS9 is seen as a soap opera. You can say that DS9 is boring, especially if you don't follow it closely, or if you've only seen season 1 and 2, but a soap opera it is not.

Well, I think it's because of all the talking. Two people standing still in a room, talking about lots of things, but no action. Of course I'm generalizing, there was a bit of action, but not much. And I'm also talking about the first 2 seasons. I've seen pretty much all episodes, and there was definitely some heavy action in the final seasons, with entire fleets and such. That was great.

Sure, we get to see some family moments with Sisko (with his son, and later his wife too) and default family man O'Brien. The series also spends a lot of time fleshing out the buddy relation between O'Brien and Bashir, and the relationship between Odo and Kira, etc. But that's character building.

Sure, but this series had much more 'character building' than the others, so that's probably the reason why it got labeled space opera. Personally, I don't mind the family moments and character relations. They just talked too much.

And DS9 is a character show. I think DS9 does it in a more truthful way than Voyager, which keeps saying it's a big family, but their relationships stay superficial, even though they're lost in space and should probably be without hope and only have each other etc. etc. The relationships have to stay somewhat superficial because Voyager is very episodic and plot-oriented, which is fun in a sort of "hey it gives me entertainment" kind of way, but doesn't often go very deep.

That's true.

Have you followed the war arcs, the whole geopolitical game in the later seasons, the Cardassian/Bajoran history with genocide and the ironic role reversals, the revealing of Section 31, the occupation of Bajor and DS9 in season 6,etc. etc. ? DS9 is far from some sort of wishy washy soap. It's a show with balls.

Now, if all you meant is that DS9 requires regular following to enjoy it, which is also true of a soap, then I agree. But that's the only characteristic it shares with soap series.

I always enjoy TV series with an ongoing plot, instead of episodic ones. That's why I like season 3 and 4 of Enterprise much better than it's first 2 seasons.

This just in: the new coffee machine is being installed at work.

Whoo!

--Erwin

[Starflux]

Didn't Enterprise get its fair share of seasons? What are you whining about, you bunch of Luke Skywalkers! There are shows far more deserving of mass uproar and continuation than Enterprise. Say, certain science fiction shows that only got as far as 14 episodes, but now fortunately get a probably great movie made called Serenity. Oh yeah.

[edit]: didn't see there was a second page already discussing Firefly.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Originally Posted by Erwin_Br

Ugggh... DS9 was the worst of the lot. As the World Turns without uh... um... without something that makes soap opera's good. (Can't think of anything at the moment)

DS9 was bad because it dealt too much with the boring reality. At least TNG has this great, and original, vision of a peaceful future instead of the dozens of SCIFI series/movies that deal with War, hatred, racism, terrorism, and more of all the stuff that you already see every day.



No, but seriously; I do admire Roddenberry's vision very much.

--Erwin

See I disagree, there is no way that humanity is going to go from what it is today to happy utopians in just 3 centuries.

As for boring...you call a full fledged war between the great powers boring?

[Erwin_Br]

Originally Posted by Avinash_Tyagi

See I disagree, there is no way that humanity is going to go from what it is today to happy utopians in just 3 centuries.

That's why it's called Science FICTION.

As for boring...you call a full fledged war between the great powers boring?

Well, it's not really original. Almost every science fiction series/movie/game/book/etc. is about a war between some great powers in the universe.

--Erwin