[Intrepid Homoludens]

Neurologist Francis Jensen examining a teenage patient. Jensen
decided to study the teenage brain when her own sons became
teenagers. Now Jensen lectures to teens and parents about how
teenagers' brains are different.

The Teen Brain: It's Just Not Grown Up Yet | NPR (text or audio, pick one)

...scientists used to think human brain development was pretty complete by age 10. Or as she puts it, that "a teenage brain is just an adult brain with fewer miles on it."

But it's not. To begin with, she says, a crucial part of the brain — the frontal lobes — are not fully connected. Really.

"It's the part of the brain that says: 'Is this a good idea? What is the consequence of this action?' " Jensen says. "It's not that they don't have a frontal lobe. And they can use it. But they're going to access it more slowly."

That's because the nerve cells that connect teenagers' frontal lobes with the rest of their brains are sluggish. Teenagers don't have as much of the fatty coating called myelin, or "white matter," that adults have in this area.

Think of it as insulation on an electrical wire. Nerves need myelin for nerve signals to flow freely. Spotty or thin myelin leads to inefficient communication between one part of the brain and another.

...This also may explain why teenagers often seem so maddeningly self-centered. "You think of them as these surly, rude, selfish people," Jensen says. "Well, actually, that's the developmental stage they're at. They aren't yet at that place where they're thinking about — or capable, necessarily, of thinking about the effects of their behavior on other people. That requires insight."

And insight requires — that's right — a fully connected frontal lobe.

Heh heh. And THIS, scientifically speaking, is why I NEVER, FREAKING EVER want to relive my teenage years. This is why I characterize my teen years as being some of the most difficult in my life.

[Luna Sevithiainen]

And that is why you should not drink until your frontal lobes are done which is about, what was it again, around 20 years or something?

Frontal lobes are a funny thing. When they are not developed yet they already tell you that they are because of some flaws caused by them being underdeveloped.

[Hammerite]

What if you're a teenager and you do think about how what you do affects others? I know loads of people like that.

[Luna Sevithiainen]

The general pstychologist would say that you only think that you know how hat you do affects others, but do not really know.

I would say that it isn't impossible. People mature at different rates.

[Jazhara7]

Originally Posted by Luna Sevithiainen

I would say that it isn't impossible. People mature at different rates.

Exactly. Just like cheese.


-

[booB]

Originally Posted by Hammerite

What if you're a teenager and you do think about how what you do affects others? I know loads of people like that.

Then you're eating too much fat.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Discussing this in another forum....

Originally Posted by fellow forum member

I don't know. I hated teenagers even when I was a teenager. I think generally speaking most teenagers are immature.

I'd take that in a scientific sense. And of course there will be variances, even exceptions, as pointed out. Some teens' brains may develop a little faster than others'. And you could try to sugar coat it for some of the teens reading this thread, but the fact is the fact - in your teen years you, your brain, your body, really are immature insomuch as you're still developing physically and mentally. As the study shows, it's a continuing process, a biological phase.

So it's perfectly understandable that teens may act the way they do. As I stated before elsewhere, many teens think the world revolves around them, they expect everything to be put at their feet, they think they can rule the world, they hinge their entire identities and plane of existence on what they wear, who is within their social circle, who that circle excludes, what music that circle chooses to listen to, what game console to own, what books to read, etc. That's how you behave. That's how I behaved when I was a teen (if I had to use the 1980s movie The Breakfast Club as a litmus test I would be Ally Sheedy's character, the recluse).

This state of mind makes sense when you consider that "the nerve cells that connect teenagers' frontal lobes with the rest of their brains are sluggish."

I wouldn't be surprised that most any teen would take offense at that, even when it's a scientific fact. Many teens may feel that they are full pledged adults, and that makes sense behaviorally. They want to impose as much distance as possible between who they are now and what they were before they turned 13, 14, or 15. And what they were were.....kids. And they want to eliminate the distance between who they are now and what they will be when they finally enter university, move away from parents, and can freely enter a bar or club where alcohol is served, and enjoy fully exploring the pleasures of sex.

There are exceptions of course. But most of the people in my high school only cared about drinking beer, getting stoned, and getting laid.

I'm pretty sure I was one of the few kids in my high school that cared about anything other than the small little world in which we grew up. I couldn't wait to get out of there.

I was hermetic myself when I was in high school. I think I went through essentially the same painful process of maturation in my teens. But I did so in a non-typical way. I had no truly close friends in h.s., I never hung out at the mall, did any social clubs in school, attended football games, none of that.

I actually didn't crawl out of my shell until I entered art school and that's when I began making up for lost time, because I was finally surrounded by people who were individualistic and creative like me, in a world where individuality and creativeness is very strongly encouraged and rewarded.

[tsa]

When I was a teenager I never understood teenagers going on about how there was never anything organized for them, or how they were left out. "Go to school and learn for your future," I always thought. "There are only about 8 teenage years and you have to take some very serious decisions about the rest of your life, so you'd better get to know who you are and what you want fast." Of course that was a bit naive, but that was really what I thought back then.

And about developing brains: here in the Netherlands so-called coma-drinking is very popular these days. Every weekend some people around the age of 14 end up in hospital because of severe alcohol poisoning. Taking pills in discos is considered normal these days. We may get a whole generation of people who severely damaged their brains in their teenage years and will have a hard life ahead of them because of that.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

There are recent studies showing how disproportionate consumption of alcohol screws up brain development during teen years, noticeably affecting functions like memory and attention (I'll find it if you're interested), hence slowing down learning and lowering grades. Don't expect stellar aptitude performance in your later high school years and in college.

But once you stop drinking your brain can starting functioning again and has a better chance once more to fully develop.

[tsa]

I didn't know that last bit. Luna, you're the expert here. What do you know about drinking and brain development?

[Hammerite]

Whoopee. I don't drink, though I have had two "jazz cigarettes" in my time.

[Luna Sevithiainen]

Originally Posted by tsa

I didn't know that last bit. Luna, you're the expert here. What do you know about drinking and brain development?

(Sorry, a bit late, my internet died for a week).
In short: drinking + brain development = no good. Basically, as long as the brain is still in development, it is more sensitive to the damaging effects of alcohol than the completely developed brain is. It seems that alcohol damages the growth processes, so you can imagine that that is no good for the developing brain.
The main problem is that many people don't know that the frontak regions of the brain, the part involved in decision making, planning, attention, reponsibility, basically a lot of higher functions, is not yet completely developed until about the age of 21. (Which is why I would make the minimum age at which you can buy alcohol preferably 21, and at least higher than the 16 years minimum we have in the Netherlands, but I digress).

As for the effects being reversible when you stop drinking. I don't know much about that. In a way it does sound logical that when alcohol slows down brain development, stopping with alcohol could get rid of that effect. On the other hand, alcohol kills brain cells, and brain cells are not very regenerative: once dead, they stay dead, and after initial development, new brain cells are only generated in a limited number of structures.

So, yeah, drinking + developing brain = no good. How much drinking is needed for the no good part to occur, I don't know, but let's not try that out on the first willing teenager we find, else the medical ethical commitee may get us in trouble