[Squinky]

Or in some cases, it's the other way around -- movies base themselves on the inventive ways of real torturers.

[Henke]

I often prefer to be reminded of the horrible things that are happening in the world then to see a cute fantasy world (although that depends on what mood I'm in).

[Squinky]

I'm not saying I'm only for escapism; although escapism is definitely nice a lot of the time, there's only so much time you can spend hiding from the world's problems. I just prefer that characters are shown overcoming cruelty, rather than resigning to it, because I believe that cruelty can be overcome and ultimately stopped, and I don't like that society sends us messages that make us believe otherwise.

[tsa]

But you can't expect one individual to overcome cruelty when it's done to her/him. One people can overcome a cruel government or other faction, however. But that's off-topic for this thread.

[samIamsad]

What is horror? Is it cinema borderlining on torture porn a la the Saw movies? Is it the sensationalist news that brings you moving pictures of people jumping out of the twin towers on home delivery? Is it the unemployed father beating his wife and kids? What is horror?

I think there's some kind of beast in all of us. As has been said, people have this need to go take a look at that car accident. And under the right circumstances, everyone could succumb to their "darkest sides". Horror entertainment is escapism, it's the love for the thrill, it's satisfying certain desires you may or may not have. A rather personal thing and as such not any more "low-brow" than your average Adam Sandler flick or romance paperback, if you are one of those who divides entertainment into arbitrary categories such as "high" and "low. And if you are: stop it. Life will shine all the brighter.

Above the escapism, just like any form of entertainment, horror can even be more than that. Take Romero's Dawn Of The Dead movie, for instance. It's over-the-top gory, it's scary and it's funny for sure - but on top of that it's also really really clever and rightfully recognized as such by fans and critics alike. And many Stephen King novels are a testament to their author's social awareness, many a prejudiced man and woman wouldn't believe when all they ever got to see of the man was an American Express commercial and garbage drive-in cash-ins on his short stories.

[loobylou26]

i love my horror, stephen king, jonathon boakes, wes craven richard laymon, etc etc etc getting that shiver up my spine is awesome lol. However i cant stomach real tragedies like people really being tortured and kids getting abused and stuff. mayb coz the stuff on the news is the real horror and not the "look out hes behind you" fluff in the entertainment world

[MystGirl]

For me, it depends on what type of horror movie it is. I tend to like horror movies that are more "haunting", then straight gore fests.

I like movies that involve more psychological "horror" then say, a crazy guy with a chainsaw cutting people up.

I've enjoyed some of the horror classics, like Friday The 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street, Night Of The Living Dead, etc...

But when it comes to current horror movies, to me, the directors are just in it for the shock value. I have absolutely NO desire to see movies with torture scenes like Hostel, Wolf Creek, etc. Especially where women or girls are getting tortured. I wonder about the directors who make these movies and if some of them have serious hangups about women. But there were torture "type" horror movies like these that were popular in the 70's and 80's, with sorority girls getting "drilled" or "sliced up" by some manic who breaks in and kills them. I didn't like those either. To me, they seemed to glorify violence against women.

For me, I just don't like to see excessive violence against women or girls in general on film, and certain horror movies, seem to almost "sexualize" the violence against them.

It's also the reason I don't tolerate rape scenes in movies well anymore. Certain directors seem to feel the need to make them as graphic and violent as possible. We know rape is horrible. We don't need to always "see" how horrible it is. Some of these current horror movies, really do fit the new term that's been coined called "horror porn". Naked girls, being hung upside down and having their skin slowly sliced off in one current movie I've read about.

I have two words for the current crop of horror torture movies.... no thanks.


It's not that I can't enjoy a violent horror movie. I have. But they have to be done a certain way and only if the violence against the female characters in the movie, isn't "sexualized" to a certain degree, by glorifying it. If it feels too much like a snuff film, instead of a horror film, then I don't want to see it.

[Squinky]

Yeah, the juxtaposition of sexy young ladies with torture disturbs me too. The eroticisation of violence really does sum up what's wrong with society today.

[samIamsad]

You know, "good old horror" ain't Nosferatu, Alien or good old Freddie. Old horror is The Public Hanging Of A Murderer In Ben Wheeler, Texas. It's The Witches Burning At Augsburg, Germany. It's The Gladiators In Rome, Italy. Some of these were pretty popular with those who had the chance to attend if historical records are to be believed. And none of these were the kind of deal you and your hosts knew all too well everything is all set up and fictional. Nah, those were the real thing.


We're all individual beings, we all hold our own morale standards, and we should respect them as such. Personally, I have grown up in a country whose inhabitants wouldn't even know that something as horrible as violence existed if it wasn't for the cinema, video games and Tom&Jerry cartoons, honest. A country in which after the latest school shooting politicians, experts and media are once again arguing about stricter laws, including proscription laws of violence-glorifying video games and other media, despite the fact that there are already laws in place that keep such from rearing their heads. We're talking about a country in which Carpenter's supposedly horror classic The Thing was on sale in a version that clocks in ten minutes short and doesn't make any sense whatsoever. A country in which your primary foe in Half Life is a silly robot that until now nobody else in the World has seen ever. A country in which except for Putt-Putt Goes To The Moon, the Teletubbies and a free-for-all education on guns nothing is made available to you until all of your granchildren hit their twenty-first.

I have my own perception about media and violence as much as all of you. It's a debate that's as old as humanity itself, it's here to stay and with the ever-changing media it will always be worth tackling. As the World changes, so changes responsibilty. Alas:

Originally Posted by Squinky

The eroticisation of violence really does sum up what's wrong with society today.

I dunno, but since we're talking about our supposedly "modern Western civilization", I guess, with millions of people being unemployed, struggling to make a living at the brink of poverty, not being able to afford quality health care and what else, I'd really like to point a finger to something else than a remake of The Hills Have Eyes and Doom or something and make a scapegoat out of that. Unfortunately, I cannot do this. Pointing fingers to a Black Sabbath record and some gorefest coming to a cinema near you has always been so much easier.

[Squinky]

Originally Posted by samIamsad

I'd really like to point a finger to something else than a remake of The Hills Have Eyes and Doom or something and make a scapegoat out of that. Unfortunately, I cannot do this. Pointing fingers to a Black Sabbath record and some gorefest coming to a cinema near you has always been so much easier.

Waitaminute, waitaminute. Did I honestly point fingers at violent media as the cause (rather than a representation) of real-world violence? Because if I did, that wasn't my intention. Nor was it my intention to completely disregard the problems of people in less fortunate situations than those many of us internet users experience in the Western world. Just so we're clear.

[samIamsad]

Originally Posted by Squinky

Waitaminute, waitaminute. Did I honestly point fingers at violent media as the cause (rather than a representation) of real-world violence?

Well this is what you wrote:

Originally Posted by Squinky
The eroticisation of violence really does sum up what's wrong with society today.

What I personally meant to say was this, if we both lost us in translation: If the existence of gross-out fiction "really does sum up what's wrong with society today" for you, your view on society must be pretty skewed. Or maybe we just don't agree on the wrongs and rights, but personally I could think of some things else than a couple of movies that rarely make an impact on the box office. And all of those are actually very much real.

[Squinky]

Well, in that case, maybe I'm simply more shocked and disgusted by violence against women than most people are. *shrugs*

[samIamsad]

That I can understand in some ways - as I said, we all hold our own morale standards. However, we're still talking fiction.

I wasn't aware of the fact that we were talking about rape-against-women type of movies in particular - admittedly I'm not even sure what we're really talking about. There's this infamous tree rape in "Evil Dead", I think there's a Corman film in which a woman is raped by a giant maggot (yes, really, cheesy B-movie heaven) and rape is a relatively common theme in violent movies in general, but the snuff-like kind of stuff surely is something that never makes it into your local theatre, let alone rentals or anything beyond private distribution.

Talking about rape scenes, that of Monica Bellucci in "Irreversible" is absolutely unwatchable, since there's nothing glorifying or erotic about it in any kind of way. Rather unusual for a film, as even non-"schlock" and non-genre films tend to triviliaze the act in question. It's a controversial film, but it has got a point to make, apparently.

[Henke]

That Corman movie is Galaxy of Terror.

I don't believe that movies can make people do violent acts if that's what's being discussed here now.

It's understandable that some people don't like to see movies which makes you feel scared or nauseous while others do. Everybody have different taste.

[MystGirl]

Originally Posted by samIamsad

That I can understand in some ways - as I said, we all hold our own morale standards. However, we're still talking fiction.

I wasn't aware of the fact that we were talking about rape-against-women type of movies in particular - admittedly I'm not even sure what we're really talking about. There's this infamous tree rape in "Evil Dead", I think there's a Corman film in which a woman is raped by a giant maggot (yes, really, cheesy B-movie heaven) and rape is a relatively common theme in violent movies in general, but the snuff-like kind of stuff surely is something that never makes it into your local theatre, let alone rentals or anything beyond private distribution.

Talking about rape scenes, that of Monica Bellucci in "Irreversible" is absolutely unwatchable, since there's nothing glorifying or erotic about it in any kind of way. Rather unusual for a film, as even non-"schlock" and non-genre films tend to triviliaze the act in question. It's a controversial film, but it has got a point to make, apparently.

My original post was not about rape-against-women movies. (that was a second point in the post) My original post, was about the excessive amount of torture scenes in current horror movies that involve women.... to the point where these torture scenes are almost "sexualized". As if the director himself, is making them so graphic, for some audience members to "get off" on. Violence is very sexual for some...especially sexual sadists who enjoy watcking women or girls get tortured.

That really, was my only point. I just don't care for watching horror movies with excessive torture against women. Just my personal preferrence.

[splin]

It's not rape if her safeword is 'f**kmeintheass". You guys overthink things, someone post the "IT'S GORE TIME" picture.

[MikeLXXXVIII]

I do think there is something sickening in us enjoying to be "scared".
As "samIamsad" pinned down, to me it makes no sense to enjoy seeing someone being tortured fictionally yet if it was real we would be wetting our pants off.

I do like horror due to the fact that the genre itself can allow itself to use overnatural elements. I don't speak of cheap scares like this monster or chainsaw dude which is hardly anything creative. But creating this unknown creepy atmosphere, and if possible tie a good interesting story to it. This unfortunately I feel like most films these days fail on. They rely too much on sex which is such a turn off. Personally the most awesome horror experience I have witnessed have been from videogames. I usually like their made up worlds and mythology that comes with them. I should start reading more books I suppose.
There might exist exceptional films and I wouldn't mind any recomendations but most of the time I believe they are crap but thats with most things out there.

Some horror films might be brilliant in the beginning but when you start getting to the climax or see this "monster" it just looks pathetic and not believable. They always struggle to maintain their quality most of the time. Makes me wanna throw the directors from a cliff and try the genre out myself as I disagree with a lot of decisions made in these films.

[MikeLXXXVIII]

Originally Posted by MystGirl

My original post was not about rape-against-women movies. (that was a second point in the post) My original post, was about the excessive amount of torture scenes in current horror movies that involve women.... to the point where these torture scenes are almost "sexualized". As if the director himself, is making them so graphic, for some audience members to "get off" on. Violence is very sexual for some...especially sexual sadists who enjoy watcking women or girls get tortured.

That really, was my only point. I just don't care for watching horror movies with excessive torture against women. Just my personal preferrence.

Well thats just the truth, they may try to make it out as rape (to disguise) but the function of it is only to serve as some sort of entertainment. I cringe everytime a film turns to a sex scene, most of the time it doesn't really give any value or fit to the plot. Sexuality can be used in a very effective way but the way its exposed today is just out of idiotic pervesion.

[Annacat]

While I like a game/movie with a creepy atmosphere, my tolerance for violence, gore, torture, etc. in media is almost nonexistent. I'm not in favour of censorship by any means, but I don't personally care for it, or choose it for my own fun and entertainment.

That said, in games in particular, the context makes a big difference for me. My threshold is a lot higher if the acts of violence or cruelty were committed or implied to have been committed by a villain or antagonist, and it's the player character's job to set things right. In the context of fixing or restoring the situation, with violence and pain not being glorified, I can handle more. If the player character is the one being violent or cruel, however, I just can't stomach it. Doing things like that is not something I can incorporate into my fantasy worlds. I don't think there's anything wrong with people who can-- it's just not in me to find it fun; I can't compartmentalize that well, and I don't enjoy trying.

So yeah, in terms of how much violence and infliction of suffering I can handle in a game, it makes a big difference for me whether the violence and suffering are seen as something negative to be set right, or are acts that are expected of the player character or protagonist to gain a positive outcome.

[tsa]

Hi Annacat, welcome to the forums! Your avatar brings back memories... Haven't I seen you in Myst Online?