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Old 10-13-2008, 05:19 AM   #1
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Default How to deal with psychopathic relatives?

A friend has a problem where their mother has what appears to me as some kind of personality disorder. I'm not sure on what course of action to advise, and while "a random bunch of internet people" may not have the answer, it might at least give them some ideas...

So, basically, there's a pattern to her behaviour. She lives a long way away from the friend and when they see each other they get on fine for a couple of days and then the mum starts lots of little criticisms that start getting bigger and bigger until it comes to huge recriminations for past events. Past events are quite huge: the mother seems to think of herself like Fantine in Les Miserables. She blames this all on her kid who was 10 or 11 at the time. Riiight.

For example, they recently organised a vacation together and consulted with her on hotel, flights, etc. After the first couple of days, she complained about the hotel, about being isolated (you needed a car to drive anywhere as the hotel was a bit remote and she doesn't drive), and that they went swimming on the last day while she was upset about leaving.

Now, this would be much less complicated if my friend didn't have kids. The kids love their Gran although she doesn't really ever play with them or talk to them, she just spends vast amounts of money on presents and clothes for them. Who would want to keep the kids from their Gran? Who would want their kids to start hearing all the lies and half-truths and even the truth about the sordid past when they are not even 6 years old yet?

So, its a dilemma and neither choice is easy. How do you handle someone with these terrible mood swings? Can you hire a psychiatrist for someone else? (Although the mother claims she does see a psychiatrist who apparently tells her she needs to think more about herself! Either she's hearing what she wants to or the psychiatrist is not very good)
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Old 10-13-2008, 08:35 AM   #2
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Wow, she sounds just atrociously narcisistic.

Hmmm...
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Old 10-13-2008, 09:07 AM   #3
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I think you'd want to know if it's malignant narcissism, I don't think i understand the subject matter well enough to give you much insight on that possibility.

Okay, about the shrink... first you'd want to make sure that it's an actual licensed psychiatrist and not a psychoanalyst or "psycho rehabilitationist" or someone using some sort unregulated title. And even if it is, they're probably bound by doctor patient confidentiality. You'd have to know how the laws about those two things apply in that area.

She sounds incredibly hard to treat. <brainfart>But, just supposing I had to bet on what would work...

(I hope you're sitting down)

I'd say pot.

Now, I don't mean to imply that it's at all a good idea, I wouldn't be surprised if it somehow horribly complicated the condition. And I do not even know enough about these things to give much credibility to that thought. That's just a really strong hunch that comes to mind.</brainfart>
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Old 10-13-2008, 12:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSH View Post
So, basically, there's a pattern to her behaviour. She lives a long way away from the friend and when they see each other they get on fine for a couple of days and then the mum starts lots of little criticisms that start getting bigger and bigger until it comes to huge recriminations for past events.
Hrm....that's pretty much the way a very close relative of mine
behaves towards our mother.
Sorry, I don't have any advice at all. In our case, if I confront my very close relative about her behaviour I get yelled at, totally out of control. And then she demands an apology from me, or she'll never speak to me again.

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Old 10-13-2008, 01:40 PM   #5
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It could be NPD combined with some other personality disorder, that kind of thing is said to happen a lot. But, IANAP.

They could try to find a semi-scrupulous psych trained individual, who could be willing to help out with this.

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Old 10-13-2008, 05:40 PM   #6
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Oh boy, that is complicated and agonizing. I don't have any advice for you, but I wish your friend strength and patience in dealing with this. And remember, the mother can only be sent to a shrink if she herself wants to go there. And from your text I don't see that happening any time soon...
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:23 PM   #7
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This is more of a behavioral issue. My take is that it's not a psychosis that you can involuntarily commit her to treatment for. Her issues are deeply ingrained in her past experiences, and everyone around her needs to just deal with it--there's no real medical science that can come to play here, and there may be no fix.

She's already seeing a psychiatrist (good or bad)--drugs or medical proceedures are just not the way.

Let it be.
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Old 10-14-2008, 05:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
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Quote:
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...
I'm curious what kind of reaction the two of you had to the marijuana theory.

There are certain circumstances in which people can be made to get psychiatric care even if they don't want it, like if they're a danger to others or a danger to themselves. So, if she did get caught threatening to, say, kill herself, that could get her pulled in. And psychiatrists do have ways of telling when people are being uncooperative. And while I'm sure it is often possible to fool psychiatrists at least a little bit, she does not seem sound minded enough to do that consistently enough.

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...
You have far too much empathy for her, her specific personal issues sound interchangeable, they probably even compare quite pathetically to most others' with similar behavior.

But enough pointless or potentially dangerous conjecture from me, here's something I think could actually be a bit practical: why not find creative ways to limit the durations of interaction with her? ie. schedule vacations that have multiple components so that she'd only be with on one or two of them.

Or try to use other people to keep her in check, she might be confident and comfortable about being judgemental of people she's accustomed to, but may not be willing to show it off in front of third parties with no personal circumstances restraining their behavior and no history of caving in.

Now, I can understand why this would be embarrassing and probably the last thing they might want to do, but it just might work. Her neurotic habits could also be just a pattern that's highly specific to some people, and she might be capable of acting a lot more normal with others. I think the best way to go about something like that is to plan it beforehand and get someone who would know exactly what they're going to be exposed to.



Now I've just remembered that this woman sounds a lot like the mother of this suicidal girl I once heard from. I wish I had saved a copy of that thread.
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Old 10-14-2008, 07:16 AM   #9
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I'm curious what kind of reaction the two of you had to the marijuana theory.
I really don't know what to say. I haven't got the faintest idea what it would do to a person like the one SSH (or I) described.
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Old 10-14-2008, 07:57 AM   #10
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Me neither, sorry.
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
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You have far too much empathy for her
It's not empathy for the most part, it's complacency. I have folks in my life in a similar state that's how I've dealt with it.

Quote:
why not find creative ways to limit the durations of interaction with her? ie. schedule vacations that have multiple components so that she'd only be with on one or two of them.
This is more or less how I deal with it.

Quote:
Now, I can understand why this would be embarrassing and probably the last thing they might want to do, but it just might work. Her neurotic habits could also be just a pattern that's highly specific to some people, and she might be capable of acting a lot more normal with others. I think the best way to go about something like that is to plan it beforehand and get someone who would know exactly what they're going to be exposed to.
The only path is one of rehabilitation. She's capable of reacting the same was to all who approach her. There may be some soul who could interact with her in a different way, but how do you find this person? If not by profession, then only by chance.
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Old 10-17-2008, 01:25 PM   #12
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Can I say something rather irrelevant and rather light?

Spoiler:
I read the title as "How to deal with telepathic relatives?" Now that's a subject I want to read more about.


(Edit): Can I say something not-so-irrelevant, yet even more light?
Spoiler:
If you want to deal with psychopathic relevants, just bring out... the Psychonauts!

Last edited by UPtimist; 10-18-2008 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 10-18-2008, 09:29 AM   #13
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My mother and I have a strong telepathic connection.
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Old 10-18-2008, 12:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
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The only path is one of rehabilitation.
Why? Okay, rehabilitation sounds nice, but it's often just not feasible, and sometimes you have to settle for keeping someone restrained, or even appeased.

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She's capable of reacting the same was to all who approach her.
What the...

Do you know her or something? People who act vindictive and angry with specific people do not always have the confidence to do so in the presence of others. People often get accustomed to others acting a specific way, ie. in this case, tolerating irrational rage about grudges. Hence why involving someone who is not restrained by precedent or family ties, while a bit unusual to arrange, could potentially cause dramatically different behavior.
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Old 10-18-2008, 07:13 PM   #15
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Okay, you're right. One path is just to accept the way it is.

My advise was only meant as a suggestion for change. And it's not always feasible.

Not everyone tries though.
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Old 10-20-2008, 04:57 AM   #16
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The latest twist... friend's grandmother died. Friend's mum went to the funeral and saw her brother and sister there. Sister had been living with the grandmother in grandmother's flat for last 20 years looking after her as she was old and infirm. Despite having no money troubles and her own house, friend's mom says AT THE GRAVESIDE. "So when are you going to sell the flat (ie make yourself homeless) so I can have my share of the money?"

And then she wonders why they are angry with her.
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:23 AM   #17
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Smart move, friend's mom!
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:40 PM   #18
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I had something similar happen when my dad died. A long lost half-brother called me up and insisted he meant no wrong trying to get to dad's stuff (of little or no value, like the stereo).

Apparently, it took him all of two days to show up at dad's house (where dad's widow still lived (not my mother, but still)) to paw over things. My sister had berated him about it.

I certainly had other thoughts at the moment.

Some folk simply have no sense of propriety.
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