[RLacey]

If you haven't finished (or started) reading Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows but intend to, STOP READING THIS THREAD! You will come across spoilers galore...







That warning out of the way, I suppose that we ought to have one of these threads (I believe we did for the last book).

So... who else has finished the thing? And what did you think of it?

Personally, I could have done without the epilogue; it didn't add anything (though I suppose it reduced the demand on Rowling to produce another book, given that she didn't kill off any of the three main characters), and the ending sentences of the previous chapter would - to my mind - have made for a better ending to the series.

And I felt that the first two thirds of the book meandered a bit too much. All those "weeks passed" moments made the thing feel rather long-winded and disconnected.

Mind you, I'm looking forward to seeing the end of the book in celluloid form (though, as with The Half Blood Prince, I'm slightly curious as to how they're going to show some of the events without losing the all-important, family-friendly film ratings). And to my mind this was certainly one of the better books in the series...

[ATMachine]

I've finished too; I got it on Friday evening/Saturday morning and read through the night, which may not have been wise as I crashed hard on Saturday evening. Oh well, feeling much better now, thank you.

I agree that it was one of the best in the series (Order of the Phoenix is to my money the worst, though oddly the film version of OOTP is tied for me with Cuaron's Prisoner of Azkaban as the best movie of the five so far).

Fortunately I didn't see any spoilers (the only one I saw was the identity of RAB--that was back in 2005, well before it was truly proven--and I had already guessed rightly who he was).

I liked that the action starts off almost right away, and with a totally unexpected death. Poor Hedwig. (Maybe the copyright page should've had the disclaimer "No animals were harmed in the making of this book." )

I also really liked the humanizing of Dumbledore. Nice to see a mentor figure for once who's human and has some very big flaws (as opposed to the godlike Obi-Wan or Gandalf). Plus the parallels between him and Voldemort (both dangerous when exposed to power, both seeking immortality) were interesting.

The Deathly Hallows... I was completely wrong about what these were (I was guessing that they were the Horcruxes/four founders' relics/Four Grail Hallows of Arthurian legend, which would have made Ravenclaw's relic a wand or staff or spear of some sort). But I wasn't too far off after all: the real Hallows were like a Wizarding version of the Grail Quest, given that uniting them all was supposed to confer mastery over Death (like the Grail could bestow immortality). Fitting that Dumbledore, who was established early on as an alchemist of note, would be interested in them.

Interesting that each Horcrux in the series is destroyed by a different person.

Love the fact that Harry survives in part because he saves Malfoy's life. Sort of paralleling Frodo and Gollum there?

And speaking of which: the bits with Ron wearing the horcrux around his neck brought serious LotR flashbacks into my head. I half-expected him to start calling it his precioussss.

I'm probably the only one who liked the Epilogue. Sure, it was rather saccharine, but it was worth it for the moment between Albus Severus and Harry about the former's namesake. Nice to see that Harry is truly mature and has let go of his hate, something the Marauders--or Snape himself, for that matter--could never have achieved.

And Pansy Parkinson is totally Scorpius' mother.

EDITED TO ADD: Had some more thoughts.

Harry is a Christ figure now--he made the choice to seek his own death, so that Voldemort would not harm others. And of course, just as his mother's death saved him from Voldemort, so now his own attempt to die saves the inhabitants of Hogwarts. So Harry is even more of a Christ figure than most literary Christ figures--his sacrifice is so spiritually powerful that it alters the physical world.

Plus, to add to that he achieves the friggin' Holy Grail! There are historically four Grail Hallows associated with the Fisher King legend of medieval times; possessing all four objects was said to bestow immortality and wisdom, just as possessing the three Deathly Hallows allows the owner to become "master of Death." It's no coincidence that the word "hallow" turns up in both sources. But just as, in the medieval tales, Galahad/Perceval forsook the earthly life and ascended into heaven after seeing the wonder of the Grail, by the time Harry unites the Hallows he has accepted that he must die and is no longer afraid of doing so, but will welcome it when the time comes.

[Fairygdmther]

Spoiler:

The epilogue was too pat, and didn't encompass enough of the secondary characters that we care about.

The part in the forest was too long and drawn out. I know we were to see how the famous three responded to stress, and deprivation, but it was just too long for me.

Otherwise I loved it. Snape's memories were poignant and wonderful. But he was a flawed character for his whole life and couldn't be allowed to live. He was unable to rise above his loss.

Dumbledore, showing the kind of man he was, didn't deny his past mistakes, but spent his life making reparations as much as possible.

Sad about Dobby's death. and Hedwig's. Glad to see Neville gain confidence in himself.

Would like to have seen on platform 9 3/4 to have Draco come over and shake Harry's hand - no protestations of friendship, just an acknowledgement of past shared experiences. Though he nodded, that wasn't quite enough for me.

Amazing series, what a mind JKRowling must have!

FGM

[Squinky]

It was one of those stories that ended rather predictably (if anyone had told me who'd died or not died at the end, I wouldn't have cared so much), but still as consistently well-written as the other books. Basically, a Hogwarts adventure taking place, for the most part, outside of Hogwarts. I expected nothing less.

Snape's backstory, oddly enough, was my favourite. Originally, I'd thought he was on neither Voldemort nor Dumbledore's side and was doing what he could to save himself, but what really happened was infinitely cuter. Aww!

[Lucien21]

I thought it was ok. Certainly better than 5 and 6 books which were over bloated.

She gainly tries to tie up all the loose ends and mostly succeeds, but there is alwasys going to be some characters that lose out in the summing up.

The epilogue ending was far too sugary for my tastes and felt tacked on. They should have had Harry/Ginny kiss right at the end of the book instead of just showing them married 19 years later.

I still think she doesn't write death scenes well. They are always emotionless and more like passing comments. I nearly missed Lupin and Tonks dying in the battle at the end.

I also felt sligtly gipped that she promised some major deaths in this one and failed to produce them. After Dumbledore in the last one I was expecting at least Hagrid to die or Hermionie.

What we got was Hedwig, Mad-eye, Snape, Lupin, Tonks, A load of small characters like Colin and crabbe, One of the Twins (Fred) and of course Voldemort. I got the impression that she toyed with killing both Harry and Hermionie, but chickened out.

So when does Harry Potter: The Next Generation come out.

[Squinky]

Originally Posted by Lucien21

They should have had Harry/Ginny kiss right at the end of the book instead of just showing them married 19 years later.

Ugh, goodness no! That would be even more nauseating and cliché-inducing, I think.

Originally Posted by Lucien21

I nearly missed Lupin and Tonks dying in the battle at the end.

I did too, actually.

[MoriartyL]

Originally Posted by Lucien21

I still think she doesn't write death scenes well. They are always emotionless and more like passing comments. I nearly missed Lupin and Tonks dying in the battle at the end.

Hey, me too! I didn't realize they'd died until Harry reflected on it afterward. But I thought it was just me.

Anyhow, awesome book. Awesome series!

There were two problems I had with it. First, the middle did drag on too much. I like that she had one last little drama between the three of them before the end. But much too long. Half the fun (or more) of these books is being there with them, the reader being the fourth member of the group. And as that fourth member, I felt left out not knowing what the heck they were filling up their time with. I mean, they were out there for months, doing nothing. Didn't they have books to read, or games to play, or spells to practice, or potions to brew, or anything I can vicariously join in on? No, they just sat there for months, waiting for their brains and muscles to go numb from disuse. That section was a misfire.

Secondly, I thought the retcon about the Cloak was awkward. If in any of the past books anyone had expressed that this Invisibility Cloak was better than most, I'd have no problem here. But that never happened. All that has been said is that these cloaks are really expensive; you'd think if this specific one were also a one-of-a-kind legendary artifact Harry would've known something was up. And it didn't seem to fit the logic of the fairy tale as well as the wand or the stone.


Otherwise, great book. I hope kids will still be reading this series centuries from now. To bring back so many characters and plot points and themes and fit them into such an easy-to-follow story is no small feat!

What delighted me most (as a fan of exploration games and the like) was seeing how much of the world of Harry Potter was brought back. I always figured Hogwarts would play a crucial part in this last story, but I never thought she'd fit in the Room of Requirement and the Forbidden Forest and the Shrieking Shack and another Common Room and Dumbledore's office and a final confrontation in the Great Hall and even the Chamber of Secrets! (Sort of.) The whole book she kept me waiting to return to Hogwarts, and she kept pushing it farther and farther into the book, and then they came back and it was like a roller-coaster ride of old memories! What glee I was in those whole last few chapters, and non-stop!

Really, think about how many locations she fit in without the story getting awkward for it, because it's kind of incredible. Privet Drive, the Burrow, the Ministry, Sirius's house, the Lovegood house (that ceiling was so adorable!), the forest from the World Cup, the Malfoy manor, Godric's Hollow, Gringotts and Hogwarts. That's a lot o' places!

And so many characters! She even found a way to fit in Sir Cadogan! Xenophilius was great. And good ol' Aberforth! And Viktor Krum and Griphook and Dobby (Poor guy. But what a fitting end!) and all the Weasleys (I especially loved how they repeated the joke that introduced them!) and Firenze and Bane and Trelawney throwing crystal balls and Neville's Gran and Cho Chang and Lee Jordan. Sure, lots of characters only got little cameos, but still!- that's cool.



Out of curiosity, is there anyone here who didn't like the book? I don't mean that you have a few criticisms, or even many criticisms, I mean that you didn't like it. Is there such a person? Because really, this ending was so fitting to the series that I can't imagine anyone who's read this far not finding it a treat.

[bigjko]

Haven't enjoyed a Potter book this much since I read the first one.

I loved everything! From the way it started right in the middle of the action (with Dudley becoming sympathetic; brilliant way to start the theme leading to Snape's revelation), to the unprotected solitude (finally, after being protected by Hogwarts all these years), to Harry finally realizing that he doesn't have to do this all alone, when he returns to Hogwarts for the final, awesome climax.

And, I was literally waiting for something like that epilogue because I love the fact that Ginny and Harry got together in the 6th book and wanted to see them end together. Proper.

[pointandcliklover]

can someone please sum the book up for thoses of us who are too lazy to read it and dont really want to wait 4 years for the film.

Spoiler:

i flipped through the last few chaps where harry was asking if he let someone kill him and dumbledore replyed yes.

can someone explain

[Squinky]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

Out of curiosity, is there anyone here who didn't like the book? I don't mean that you have a few criticisms, or even many criticisms, I mean that you didn't like it. Is there such a person? Because really, this ending was so fitting to the series that I can't imagine anyone who's read this far not finding it a treat.

I think that if you liked the books so far, then you'd like the seventh book, because what it essentially does is summarize and wrap up all previous books. Well, unless you were really, really hoping for Harry and Hermione to get together, or something like that.

Originally Posted by MoriartyL, from the spoiler thread

Then, when I got the book, I kept my distance from the idiots in the store who immediately ran to the back of the book, so that I wouldn't overhear them saying anything. Then I started reading and didn't go into a web browser, or glance at a newspaper, or check my e-mail, or talk to anyone at all until I'd finished the book (this morning). And it was a great experience. I was pretty scared at who might die, and when chapters ended with fake shockers, I fell for them. I was thrilled by each character, place and thing they brought back because I hadn't been expecting it. The emotional parts really got me because I didn't expect them. The big twist blew me away.

I read the first page or so of the epilogue while waiting in line to pay for the book (but said nothing out loud to anyone; don't hurt me!) and thought it was "aww, cute". Then, when I got home, I read it from the beginning, and you know what? I enjoyed it just as much as I would have if I hadn't seen the epilogue. So there.

My justification in doing so is that J.K. Rowling, in fact, wrote that chapter before writing the rest of the book, as a reminder of where she saw herself going. Perhaps I just wanted to get into her head. In any case, I know the chapter's since been rewritten, but I still hope that she'll post the original, so I can find out what's changed.

[bigjko]

Originally Posted by Squinky

I read the first page or so of the epilogue while waiting in line to pay for the book (but said nothing out loud to anyone; don't hurt me!) and thought it was "aww, cute". Then, when I got home, I read it from the beginning, and you know what? I enjoyed it just as much as I would have if I hadn't seen the epilogue. So there.

How do you know? You've never read it without seeing the epilogue.

[Squinky]

Originally Posted by bigjko

How do you know? You've never read it without seeing the epilogue.

Heh. Good point.

I guess it may have been because many of the other twists that weren't covered in the epilogue and that were probably supposed to surprise me (R.A.B. is Regulus Black! Dumbledore told Snape to kill him! Part of Voldemort's soul lives inside Harry!) didn't all that much. Mostly because friends of mine and the internet had been speculating as much for ages. *shrugs*

Of course, what I wanted to get across was that I enjoyed the book immensely even despite spoiling part of it for myself, and I doubt that I could have possibly enjoyed the book any more than I did, if I hadn't known the information I'd gotten. That is all.

[Jackal]

A good read. Lots of action, fast pace for the most part, and in general I like what she did with the story (some of which I'd guessed correctly, so there weren't many surprises).

That said -- and this isn't a complaint so much as a neutral observation -- I suspect that over time this will become my least favourite. Or more accurately, the least likely to enjoy on a re-read. The reason? I missed Hogwarts in this one. Yeah yeah, I know it finished there, but in all the other books, Hogwarts was almost like one of the key characters. It was so integral to everything that happened that it was just as important as the people (or non-people, in some cases). So this one just felt like it had a big hole in it, even while all sorts of stuff was going on elsewhere. Felt more like a spin-off than a sequel in that respect. I realize that with the way the story was set up, this is how it had to be done, but nevertheless, I missed it. I was absolutely lapping up the inclusion of all the familiar names and faces at the end, as fleeting as it was.

I'm glad there was an epilogue, but I agree that it was a poor one. Way too short, too limited, and making the focus their children seemed all wrong to me. I mean, it's nice that they had kids, but it was their lives I've felt invested in through seven books.

Also, I'll just say it: having Ron and Hermione hook up was idiotic. The ridiculous tension between them was easily the weakest link in this book, and the pairing was stupid to begin with.

And I hate nitpicking silly points, but why didn't someone just disapparate out of Privet with Harry in the beginning? Seemed to work well enough all the rest of the game.

Still, though, I liked the book, and it was a fitting ending. And I agree it'll make a heckuva movie.

[MoriartyL]

Originally Posted by Squinky

I read the first page or so of the epilogue while waiting in line to pay for the book (but said nothing out loud to anyone; don't hurt me!) and thought it was "aww, cute". Then, when I got home, I read it from the beginning, and you know what? I enjoyed it just as much as I would have if I hadn't seen the epilogue.

I don't think you did. It spoiled the moment where you're supposed to think Harry's dead. You could have fallen for that (like I did) if you hadn't read the first page of the epilogue. You also knew that Ron and Hermione would survive.

Originally Posted by Squinky

Of course, what I wanted to get across was that I enjoyed the book immensely even despite spoiling part of it for myself, and I doubt that I could have possibly enjoyed the book any more than I did, if I hadn't known the information I'd gotten. That is all.

And I say you're wrong. I also say I'm more qualified to know then you are, having read the book as it was meant to be read.

[MoriartyL]

Originally Posted by Jackal

That said -- and this isn't a complaint so much as a neutral observation -- I suspect that over time this will become my least favourite. Or more accurately, the least likely to enjoy on a re-read. The reason? I missed Hogwarts in this one. Yeah yeah, I know it finished there, but in all the other books, Hogwarts was almost like one of the key characters. It was so integral to everything that happened that it was just as important as the people (or non-people, in some cases). So this one just felt like it had a big hole in it, even while all sorts of stuff was going on elsewhere. Felt more like a spin-off than a sequel in that respect. I realize that with the way the story was set up, this is how it had to be done, but nevertheless, I missed it. I was absolutely lapping up the inclusion of all the familiar names and faces at the end, as fleeting as it was.

I think you were supposed to miss Hogwarts. If you hadn't, and the entire book had had those places and people in it, it wouldn't have felt like a big deal. It would have been just another Harry Potter book. But by pushing all of that to the very end, the book gets you to miss all of them so that when they all do come back it's special.

I'm glad there was an epilogue, but I agree that it was a poor one. Way too short, too limited, and making the focus their children seemed all wrong to me. I mean, it's nice that they had kids, but it was their lives I've felt invested in through seven books.

I think it was very appropriate. The series was really about two generations- Harry's and his parents'. Just as Harry, Ron and Draco went to Hogwarts and were caught up in the whole legacy of their parents, seeing all the places they'd gone to and being caught up in all the old rivalries, so too do their kids continue the legacies of their parents. So it makes Hogwarts into this timeless place, whose story continues in every generation, rather than just the place Harry and friends went to. It also brings it all back to Platform 9 and 3/4, which is where their adventures started out. And this all closes the circle nicely, but it's still not such an important chapter, which is why it's kept short and to-the-point. It works fine.

[Fairygdmther]

Originally Posted by Jackal

... Seemed to work well enough all the rest of the game.

Jackal, you've been here too long! LOL This was a book series, not a game! hehehe

FGM

[Jackal]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

I think you were supposed to miss Hogwarts. If you hadn't, and the entire book had had those places and people in it, it wouldn't have felt like a big deal. It would have been just another Harry Potter book. But by pushing all of that to the very end, the book gets you to miss all of them so that when they all do come back it's special.

There are all kinds of ways the castle could have been actively woven in and out of the storyline without being "just another Harry Potter book". You must have very little imagination to claim otherwise. And something being intentional (even if that's true) doesn't make it a good idea.

I think it was very appropriate. The series was really about two generations- Harry's and his parents'. Just as Harry, Ron and Draco went to Hogwarts and were caught up in the whole legacy of their parents, seeing all the places they'd gone to and being caught up in all the old rivalries, so too do their kids continue the legacies of their parents. So it makes Hogwarts into this timeless place, whose story continues in every generation, rather than just the place Harry and friends went to. It also brings it all back to Platform 9 and 3/4, which is where their adventures started out. And this all closes the circle nicely, but it's still not such an important chapter, which is why it's kept short and to-the-point. It works fine.

Obviously it worked fine for you, but it's still a lame epilogue. I have no problem with including a new generation in an epilogue; but not at the expense of the two generations I've spent seven books following. Not an important chapter? An epilogue, the final words of the entire series? Um... okay. Rowling may have treated it as unimportant, but that's precisely why it's lame.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Fairygdmthr

Jackal, you've been here too long! LOL This was a book series, not a game! hehehe

Ahaha!!! You can say that again.

[Squinky]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

And I say you're wrong. I also say I'm more qualified to know then you are, having read the book as it was meant to be read.

Well, thank you for setting the record straight. May Lord Voldemort's spirit strike me down with green lightning for straying from the Almighty J.K. Rowling's carved-in-stone laws. *le sigh*

[Starflux]

Well, just finished it in a two-day run, mostly because I didn't want to stumble on any spoilers that would take away from the experience (like when it was spoiled grandiosely for me that Sirius and Dumbledore would be dying in their respective books).

I wholeheartedly enjoyed it! It was a very poignant, rollercoaster book. Perhaps a trifle much of the foresty camping scenes, but that did stress the longevity of their quest. Otherwise what I really enjoyed was how it constantly changed locations and had you fly through all the interesting parts of the wizarding world. Nice 'n questy.

The one thing that was doomed to happen throughout the series was that Voldemort wasn''t particularly scary anymore. He was only threatening because he was strong, but he had the strategic foresight and intelligence of Dastardly (from Dastardly & Muttley). And all in all his actions and reactions were quite unimpressive. At no point did I actually feel this man deserved the trepidation and status he enjoyed.

That said, great book. I was always kind of rooting for Luna though. Never cared much for Ginny.

[MoriartyL]

Originally Posted by Squinky

Well, thank you for setting the record straight. May Lord Voldemort's spirit strike me down with green lightning for straying from the Almighty J.K. Rowling's carved-in-stone laws. *le sigh*

Oh, don't be like that! Okay, I apologize. You have every right to spoil stories for yourself.