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Old 06-20-2007, 09:58 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Lucien21 View Post
There are a lot more crimes than murder committed with guns.

Beside try reading my post where I stated

"If your human nature was to commit a crime you would still commit it with a rock if need be."

Guns just make it easier. Would 30 people have dies in Virginia if he had a knife, or a rock?
Bath School Massacre

The Bath School disaster is the name given to three bombings in Bath Township, Michigan, USA, on May 18, 1927, which killed 45 people and injured 58

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Osaka school massacre

At 10:15 that morning, 37-year-old former janitor Mamoru Takuma entered the school armed with a kitchen knife and began stabbing numerous school children and teachers. He killed eight children, mostly between the ages of seven and eight, and seriously wounded thirteen other children and two teachers. Takuma was later convicted and sentenced to death by hanging. The sentence was executed on September 14, 2004.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre

Phillipines
man kills 10 and wounds 14 others. Turns self in later.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18992200/

Lets not forget the oklahoma city bombing and the world trade center (9/11)

Over 2,500,000 lives are saved every year in defense using a firearm. Consider most of the deaths are gangs killing each other in the city, criminals don't need guns to kill people, they will use any tool they can.

The reason so many people died at Virginia Tech had a variety of reasons. First of all, that college had a duty to protect those students. They had a "No Gun Policy" and there was legal action where the principle of the college specifically stated "This will be a safer place without guns" before the massacre happened. The cops are not there to protect people, by the time they arrive there, they will be there only to take pictures of your body and draw outlines. In the event a student had a gun on them that day, the massacre could have been prevented. Lets not forget the bomb threat either, Cho did infact have explosives in his dorm room which were listed on the warrant.

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Old 06-20-2007, 10:08 AM   #62
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That's the standard argument. However cars, aerosols and video games etc are not designed specifically to kill.

Guns are.

I don't believe in banning guns anyway. It's waaaaaaay too late in the US. There is no way you could round up all the guns in the country.

Tighter controls on new guns and bullets on the other hand may work, but probably still too easy to get on the black market. Bans don't tend to work, just psh thigs underground and make it harder for the normal punter to buy.

Maybe it's an edcational thing that would stop the population from being so scared of their own people. As someone pointed out in a population of 300 million and 22,000 deaths meanng I should carry a concealed weapon because there is a 0.00733333333% chance I migh be shot dead. Crazy.
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:16 AM   #63
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That's the standard argument. However cars, aerosols and video games etc are not designed specifically to kill.

Guns are.

I don't believe in banning guns anyway. It's waaaaaaay too late in the US. There is no way you could round up all the guns in the country.

Tighter controls on new guns and bullets on the other hand may work, but probably still too easy to get on the black market. Bans don't tend to work, just psh thigs underground and make it harder for the normal punter to buy.

Maybe it's an edcational thing that would stop the population from being so scared of their own people. As someone pointed out in a population of 300 million and 22,000 deaths meanng I should carry a concealed weapon because there is a 0.00733333333% chance I migh be shot dead. Crazy.
Again, the murder rate is not 22,000. It is 8,259.

We have 22,000 gun laws in the book, how many more do you want?

guns are made to shoot a projectile in an accurate and repeatable fashion, now what the PERSON holding the gun decides to do with that capability is up to them

However if you feel guns are one of the major issues in deaths in this country

So are cars, swimming pools, chainsaws, chlorine bleach, smoking, alcohol, etc.

The arguement that banning guns won't work means that criminals still have a source to get firearms. The majority of criminals are repeat offenders and felons who cannot get a firearm legally so they resort to getting them from the streets or steal them. Where are they stealing the guns from? Police departments (believe it or not a large number of firearms are stolen from evidence), gun buyback programs (yes a lot return to the streets), and people who purchase them legally. That means in order to cut off a major supply, you would effectively have to completely ban all firearms in the country, hire more than the current 180,000 cops patrolling our streets and have police that instantly respond to crime, not 15-20 minutes.

The point is, I hear the arguement "well don't ban them, just heavily restrict them" does nothing, it doesn't cut off the criminals source.

Completely banning them won't work either, evidence points to countrys like South Africa, Mexico, Russia, India, etc. that have completely banned ownership yet have had increased murder rates and crime as a result.

Even if every gun were destroyed in this country, they only constitute about 10 percent of violent crime in the country. Seeing as criminals conduct their business here selling drugs or whatever else they do, i'm sure they'll come up with a quick replacement. If the other arguement involves accidental deaths and suicides, well that's a whole other topic and I'd be happy to debate it if needbe.
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:26 AM   #64
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I'm about as bleeding-hearted and anti-violence as people get, and you know what? I agree that banning guns won't solve any problems. And heavily restricting them won't help things either. It's a band-aid solution to a tiny part of the world's major issues, right on par with banning violent video games, as someone said earlier.
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:30 AM   #65
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- GIVE ME ALL YOUR MONEY
- I have a loaded penis and I'm not afraid to use it!
- Look out he's a psycho!
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:32 AM   #66
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- GIVE ME ALL YOUR MONEY
- I have a loaded penis and I'm not afraid to use it!
- Look out he's a psycho!
All this talk about penises, we should ban and heavily regulate them. Who knows, they could be used criminally to hurt or rape people.

Just because we have the tools doesn't mean we will abuse them.
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:36 AM   #67
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I personally find a gun collection more offensive than, say, a porn collection or collection of erotic toys. I don't get why people are curious to collect things designed deliberately for no other purpose but to harm others; I find something vaguely inhuman about the whole thing.

Owning a firearm in this day and age is one thing, in matters of self-defense, but it still doesn't justify the preoccupation some have with semi-automatics and other ridiculous firearms truly designed for destruction. I can't realistically see any attempt to ban or recall firearms at this point, but I still feel that they should not have been made in the first place. That's just me, though.
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:39 AM   #68
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My neighbour looked at me funny the other day.

I think I should erect those gun turrents and realign my personal ICBM.

Personal security you know.
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:41 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Spiwak View Post
I personally find a gun collection more offensive than, say, a porn collection or collection of erotic toys. I don't get why people are curious to collect things designed deliberately for no other purpose but to harm others; I find something vaguely inhuman about the whole thing.

Owning a firearm in this day and age is one thing, in matters of self-defense, but it still doesn't justify the preoccupation some have with semi-automatics and other ridiculous firearms truly designed for destruction. I can't realistically see any attempt to ban or recall firearms at this point, but I still feel that they should not have been made in the first place. That's just me, though.
Welcome to reality.

Surely then the police and military don't need firearms? I mean after all, in the United States we trust a soldier to lug around a f.ully automatic M16 or M4 yet we don't allow them to drink a beer until they are 21.

I didn't realize one gun was somehow more deadly than the other? I sure wouldn't want to be shot with any gun. How can a chunk of steel be as dirty as porn or erotica? If guns never existed, we'd be saying "God praise the queen" and flying a British flag. Do you find other weapons offensive like swords or bows which..by the way more people were likely killed in the dark ages with these primitive weapons than firearms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucien21 View Post
My neighbour looked at me funny the other day.

I think I should erect those gun turrents and realign my personal ICBM.

Personal security you know.
It's no wonder guns were banned in Scotland, you guys are crazy. Here in the states, I would never shoot a neighbor for looking at me funny.
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:42 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Lucien21 View Post
My neighbour looked at me funny the other day.

I think I should erect those gun turrents and realign my personal ICBM.

Personal security you know.
Don't be greedy, you already have Trident up there in Scotland.

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If guns never existed, we'd be saying "God praisesave the queen" and flying a British flag.
Hey! You say that like it's a bad thing!
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:48 AM   #71
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Don't be greedy, you already have Trident up there in Scotland.


Hey! You say that like it's a bad thing!
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:55 AM   #72
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I prefer taking responsibility for my own life, not as a serf under the queen.
Wow, you're intelligent.
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:58 AM   #73
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Wow, you're intelligent.
Clearly if you prefer a socialist lifestyle living under a nanny state, then keep it where you live. The idea of people being disarmed is nothing more than a concept that "people can't be trusted". Meanwhile you are projecting your flaws on to others for being incapable of handling a 'dangerous weapon.'

Have you ever used a firearm before let alone seen one?

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Old 06-20-2007, 11:01 AM   #74
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Clearly if you prefer a socialist lifestyle living under a nanny state, then keep it where you live. The idea of people being disarmed is nothing more than a concept that "people can't be trusted". Meanwhile you are projecting your flaws on to others for being incapable of handling a dangerous firearm.

Have you ever used a firearm before let alone seen one?
Seeing as I haven't actually mentioned my views on firearms in this thread, what you have just said is nothing but assumptive nonsense.
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Old 06-20-2007, 11:04 AM   #75
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Seeing as I haven't actually mentioned my views on firearms in this thread, what you have just said is nothing but assumptive nonsense.
Then what are your views on firearm ownership?
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Old 06-20-2007, 11:18 AM   #76
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Guns and gun ownership is typically a dicey subject to talk about as people are very passionate about what they believe. The tone in this thread is getting rude by many parties and I don't want it to escalate. So can everyone take a major chill please?
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Old 06-20-2007, 11:48 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiwak View Post
I personally find a gun collection more offensive than, say, a porn collection or collection of erotic toys. I don't get why people are curious to collect things designed deliberately for no other purpose but to harm others; I find something vaguely inhuman about the whole thing.

Owning a firearm in this day and age is one thing, in matters of self-defense, but it still doesn't justify the preoccupation some have with semi-automatics and other ridiculous firearms truly designed for destruction. I can't realistically see any attempt to ban or recall firearms at this point, but I still feel that they should not have been made in the first place. That's just me, though.
Spiwak, the reason I have chosen to reply to you specifically is because I like your opinions (especially on movies, ha ha). Plus, this thread isn't all that exciting to me really, since I'm not really into guns (though I do own a few).

Anyway, I have several swords in my collection, including katanas, broadswords, and rapiers. These were designed to kill people and these types of swords have been used in wars where thousands were slaughtered, but I love military history (wars really have been instrumental in shaping the world as it is today, that's just an unfortunate fact)...so is it inhuman for me to own them?

Seen any good movies lately? Ha ha. I'll go check the Recent movies seen thread.
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:10 PM   #78
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Spiwak, the reason I have chosen to reply to you specifically is because I like your opinions (especially on movies, ha ha). Plus, this thread isn't all that exciting to me really, since I'm not really into guns (though I do own a few).

Anyway, I have several swords in my collection, including katanas, broadswords, and rapiers. These were designed to kill people and these types of swords have been used in wars where thousands were slaughtered, but I love military history (wars really have been instrumental in shaping the world as it is today, that's just an unfortunate fact)...so is it inhuman for me to own them?

Seen any good movies lately? Ha ha. I'll go check the Recent movies seen thread.
Hmm, hadn't thought of swords and other medieval weapons, actually. In truth, though, I don't mind a collection of swords because A) they're not nearly so destructive as more modern instruments, and B) there's a certain elegance about them in that a sword is not just an instrument of war but a lifestyle, y'know? Hard to explain, but in my opinion a sword can be beautiful (and more than likely a sword in some random guy's collection was not actually designed to kill, anyways).

But whatever, I still don't like guns. No "reality check" is going to change that.

As for the movies, I've been watching a bunch but not too many that I've felt compelled to comment on for some reason. Weird.
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:15 PM   #79
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Hmm, hadn't thought of swords and other medieval weapons, actually. In truth, though, I don't mind a collection of swords because A) they're not nearly so destructive as more modern instruments, and B) there's a certain elegance about them in that a sword is not just an instrument of war but a lifestyle, y'know? Hard to explain, but in my opinion a sword can be beautiful (and more than likely a sword in some random guy's collection was not actually designed to kill, anyways).

But whatever, I still don't like guns. No "reality check" is going to change that.

As for the movies, I've been watching a bunch but not too many that I've felt compelled to comment on for some reason. Weird.
Then what was a sword in someones collection designed for? My gun hasn't killed anyone so it must be defective.

According to the UK, swords are destructive, infact they are outlawing samurai swords.

http://digg.com/politics/Samurai_Swo...ned_in_Britain
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:21 PM   #80
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I guess we're all fucked, then.
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