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Old 06-20-2007, 05:31 AM   #21
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Reading about the weapons you keep at home makes me realize what huge differencies there are between the US and northen Europe anyway. (I don't know about the rest of Europe.) This whole thread makes me uneasy.
Owning weapons over here is almost always connected to hunting or membership in a (sports) shooting club (expr?). Anyone that keeps shotguns or guns in numbers for other reasons would be looked upon with suspicion.
I'm not even sure you can get a firearm permit just like that without a valid reason for owning a weapon.
What about Norway and Finland? I heard they have lax gun laws. They don't seem to have many issues with crime.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:34 AM   #22
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Unfortunately, a penis does not have the stopping power nor the firepower to take down a bad guy.
Guess again.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:36 AM   #23
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What about Norway and Finland? I heard they have lax gun laws. They don't seem to have many issues with crime.
Norway and Finland are neighbouring countries to Sweden. I would think we have similar gun laws since our countries are much alike in many aspects, but I don't know for sure. When it comes to using a weapon in hunting like I said I don't think there's a problem. But you'll need a hunter's licence.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:37 AM   #24
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Guess again.
Why do you say that? Do you think your penis is a weapon?
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:39 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Jelena View Post
Norway and Finland are neighbouring countries to Sweden. I would think we have similar gun laws since our countries are much alike in many aspects, but I don't know for sure. When it comes to using a weapon in hunting like I said I don't think there's a problem. But you'll need a hunter's licence.
Not sure on norway but I found finland if your interested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Finland
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:48 AM   #26
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No such thing as a Glock 9. The models go from Glock 17 to Glock 39. The Glock 18 is banned for sale in the US and the Glock 25 and 28 are banned for import as they use a .380 round so they do not follow under the 'sporting purposes' regulations.
Yes I realize that now, but thanks I like the glock 17. But like I said I really don't know a whole lot about guns so I must read up on them more.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:49 AM   #27
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Not living in Finland, I wouldn't know, but it seems that traditonally, guns would be a staple. In the northern reaches of the country, there isn't much but pine forest and snow, and hunting has I belive been the first and foremost method of survival. Only rifles would be good there, not smuggled PPSH-41s and Makorovs.

Also, as I recall, wolves have been known to attack humans in Siberia, so self-protection and protection of livestock is I'm sure on the minds of a lot of farmers, if the situation is the same in northern Scandinavia.


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Yes I realize that now, but thanks I like the glock 17. But like I said I really don't know a whole lot about guns so I must read up on them more.
May I be the first to recommend Gun Digest 2007.
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Old 06-20-2007, 06:00 AM   #28
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I see. Still a nice firearm, though. I've always been a fan of the Galil, in asthetic terms. Supposed to be a pretty good assault rifle otherwise, too, except it isn't quite as robust as the Kalashnikov, its competion in that region of the world.



I target shoot with mine; I'm not into hunting at all. And I certainly don't have the funds to collect. If I did, I'd have a Martini-Henry and a Garand.


Most people just collect, though. We gun owners love our steel and polymer babies in a way that would put car owner and hot-rod relationships to shame.
The Galil was developed as the FAL did not seem to function well in fully automatic in the 6 day war or yom kippur war in Israel, it was also quite heavy. This led to the Israelis developing the Galil which was based of the Finnish Rk62. The Rk62 is based off the AK47, the Israeli variant which featured milled receiver was designed to take the best features from the M16 and the AK47. It took the .223 bullet which was lightweight and more capacity, it took the design and durability of the ak47 and it had better sights which made it quite a bit more accurate than the AK47. The Galil is quite heavy due to being milled rather than stamped. Overall it's a solid rifle though expensive. It was exported to several South American countrys (infact Colombia is the only country with a license now to produce the Galil). You will see them in Chile, Guatemala, Colombia and a few other South American countries. It was also exported to South Africa during Apartheid due to the European embargo. The South African version is still in use and is called the R4 there. Estonia uses the Galil and I have heard Serbia has their own version, i've also seen them in Portugal. There are a few other nations that use it like Tonga, Micronesia, Phillipines, etc.

Overall it's pretty similar to the AK47 in appearance except that the receiver is tilted upwards near the barrel which gives it a different cosmetic look. Charging handle is pointed up to use both hands, has a folding stock which most AK's use underfolders and full, different sights, different gas block, different handguards, different magazines. Esentially I wouldn't really consider it an AK47 clone at all, while it is based off the system it is quite different in many respects.
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Old 06-20-2007, 06:00 AM   #29
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That and Finnish national service and reservists have to keep their guns...

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Finland:

"Guns and other weapons are tightly regulated. One must separately apply for a gun license, which cannot be given for "security reasons". Membership of a shooting or hunting club, or owning hunting lands is required. Even other weapons, such as pepper sprays, are regulated. Carrying weapons, including guns and knives, in public is not allowed."


Maybe that counts as "lax"?
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Old 06-20-2007, 06:04 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by SSH View Post
That and Finnish national service and reservists have to keep their guns...

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Finland:

"Guns and other weapons are tightly regulated. One must separately apply for a gun license, which cannot be given for "security reasons". Membership of a shooting or hunting club, or owning hunting lands is required. Even other weapons, such as pepper sprays, are regulated. Carrying weapons, including guns and knives, in public is not allowed."


Maybe that counts as "lax"?
Lax as in compared to the other European countries. You can still own semi-autos. You can even have silencers there.
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Old 06-20-2007, 06:10 AM   #31
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The Galil was developed as the FAL did not seem to function well in fully automatic in the 6 day war or yom kippur war in Israel, it was also quite heavy. This led to the Israelis developing the Galil which was based of the Finnish Rk62. The Rk62 is based off the AK47, the Israeli variant which featured milled receiver was designed to take the best features from the M16 and the AK47. It took the .223 bullet which was lightweight and more capacity, it took the design and durability of the ak47 and it had better sights which made it quite a bit more accurate than the AK47. The Galil is quite heavy due to being milled rather than stamped. Overall it's a solid rifle though expensive. It was exported to several South American countrys (infact Colombia is the only country with a license now to produce the Galil). You will see them in Chile, Guatemala, Colombia and a few other South American countries. It was also exported to South Africa during Apartheid due to the European embargo. The South African version is still in use and is called the R4 there. Estonia uses the Galil and I have heard Serbia has their own version, i've also seen them in Portugal.
Yep. (I guess they say imitation is the best form of flattery, so the AK-47 is one flattered piece of machinery. Just about every Eastern European and Asian country has their own version, one way or another, and that's led to other rifles like the Galil)

The Galil is being replaced by the Israelis, isn't it? I believe they're going to use some bullpup design. Too bad, really. The Galil is a great rifle, both on paper and in the field.

Quote:
Overall it's pretty similar to the AK47 in appearance except that the receiver is tilted upwards near the barrel which gives it a different cosmetic look. Charging handle is pointed up to use both hands, has a folding stock which most AK's use underfolders and full, different sights, different gas block, different handguards, different magazines. Esentially I wouldn't really consider it an AK47 clone at all, while it is based off the system it is quite different in many respects.
It has the same bolt and bolt carrier though, does it not?
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Old 06-20-2007, 06:14 AM   #32
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Why do you say that? Do you think your penis is a weapon?
I've got a nice amount of ammo, i have.
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Old 06-20-2007, 06:16 AM   #33
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Reading about the weapons you keep at home makes me realize what huge differencies there are between the US and northen Europe anyway. (I don't know about the rest of Europe.) This whole thread makes me uneasy.
Owning weapons over here is almost always connected to hunting or membership in a (sports) shooting club (expr?). Anyone that keeps shotguns or guns in numbers for other reasons would be looked upon with suspicion.
I'm not even sure you can get a firearm permit just like that without a valid reason for owning a weapon.
When I first saw this thread I was like, "Uh oh, here we go..." I was thinking it would be sort of controversial. I agree with you that it is somewhat unsettling. I will try to put your mind at ease a bit, at least as far as my own guns go...

I can't speak for anyone else here, but the only reason I own the Japanese Arisaka and the Russian gun is because they are pieces of military history, and I'm quite fond of military history. Neither gun works anymore.

As for the Glock .40 caliber, I got it because five years ago I was living alone in a house where the previous owner had been held hostage by a guy with a shotgun. He was taped into a chair while the man robbed his house, and then he was left there taped up. I guess that story got to me, and I didn't particularly feel safe in that neighborhood, so I got the gun.

It has only been fired a few times (after I bought it I went to practice with it), and I hope I never need to shoot it again. It exists only for the protection, should the need arise (which CAN happen, though it isn't likely), of my girlfriend, her daughter, and myself.

I will admit this, however. It was far too easy for me to obtain the gun. I walked into a pawn shop in Arkansas, they made one phone call ("background check"), and I walked out of there with a firearm and ammunition. I'm one of those people who isn't against citizens owning guns, but I AM against them being so easy to obtain. I agree with waiting periods and more thorough background checks.
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Old 06-20-2007, 06:19 AM   #34
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Not living in Finland, I wouldn't know, but it seems that traditonally, guns would be a staple. In the northern reaches of the country, there isn't much but pine forest and snow, and hunting has I belive been the first and foremost method of survival. Only rifles would be good there, not smuggled PPSH-41s and Makorovs.

Also, as I recall, wolves have been known to attack humans in Siberia, so self-protection and protection of livestock is I'm sure on the minds of a lot of farmers, if the situation is the same in northern Scandinavia.
The north of Finland, Sweden and Norway is called Nordkalotten and is indeed mostly wilderness. Up there hunting is a part of life and I'm sure every family owns shotguns for hunting. I'm not sure about wolves being a big threat, but I know that bears are becoming a problem in some parts of northen Sweden as they have increased in numbers these last 5-10 years.

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Originally Posted by SSH View Post
That and Finnish national service and reservists have to keep their guns...

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Finland:

"Guns and other weapons are tightly regulated. One must separately apply for a gun license, which cannot be given for "security reasons". Membership of a shooting or hunting club, or owning hunting lands is required. Even other weapons, such as pepper sprays, are regulated. Carrying weapons, including guns and knives, in public is not allowed."


Maybe that counts as "lax"?
From:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Finland
And reading the section Regulations I find this:
Quote:
To obtain a firearms license, an individual must declare a valid reason to own a gun. Acceptable reasons include: hunting, sports or hobby, profession related, show or promotion or exhibition, collection or museum, souvenir, and signalling.
It's the same as in Sweden with perhaps exception for that part: souvenir.

Anyway, keeping guns of different sorts for personal protection isn't common at all over here and I sincerely hope it stays that way.
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Last edited by Jelena; 06-20-2007 at 09:38 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 06-20-2007, 06:19 AM   #35
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Yep. (I guess they say imitation is the best form of flattery, so the AK-47 is one flattered piece of machinery. Just about every Eastern European and Asian country has their own version, one way or another)

The Galil is being replaced by the Israelis, isn't it? I believe they're going to use some bullpup design. Too bad, really. The Galil is a great rifle, both on paper and in the field.
The Galil wasn't used very long by the Israelis. They first started arriving to soldiers in 1974 and then by the mid 1980's they started being phased out. Israel received a large ammount of M16's brand new from the US during the cold war while the Arabs as well as several other countries in Asia and Africa were being armed by the Soviets. The M16's sat in storage never used until the mid 1980's. My guess is because the Israelis are mainly involved in urban combat now. A lot of the Israelis favored the M16 over the Galil as it was lightweight, very accurate and could accept all kinds of fancy bells and whistles (optics, m203 grenade launcher, etc.). The Israelis still use the Galil to a very very limited extent. By about 2006 they have nearly gotten rid of them completely or they sit in storage. The version you will most likely see now is used by tankers as they need something small and compact, so they use the Galil SAR which is a short barrel version. There is limited use of the Galil MAR by counter terrorist groups as well as 2 sniper variants. One of them is the Galatz configuration chambered in .308

The new rifle the Israelis are using is supposed to replace the m16/m4 over time. It is developed by IWI (Israel Weapons Industries) and known as the Tavor TAR-21. The weapon is being used to a limited extent currently by special forces and certain units. It's based off the m16 design in ways but due to the bullpup design, the gun is much shorter so it's more compact. Currently the gun is being exported to Colombia (i've already seen pictures of it in use there), India (they have a license to produce it), Portugal, Georgia, Germany, and Costa Rica. It's not a bad weapon especially if it is going to be used for urban warfare. If I were fighting in the desert, I would want a Galil however.

Galils are banned for import due to the Brady bill so the cost is about 2,000 dollars or more. They are very limited in the US, only about 1500 to 2000 made it into the US. As a result, the only way to buy something considered an "assault weapon" is if it has 5 US parts in it.
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Old 06-20-2007, 06:30 AM   #36
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I still don't get what's so interesting about guns.
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Old 06-20-2007, 06:31 AM   #37
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I have no idea why a civilian person should or would own an automatic machinegun rifle whatnot like that thing in the first post? I kind of get it why someone would own a handgun to go shoot at some gun club.

I know that I'll never own a firearm in my life, no need for such and I got enough "exciment" concerning guns in the army already years ago.
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Old 06-20-2007, 06:32 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Jelena View Post
The north of Finland, Sweden and Norway is called Nordkalotten and is indeed mostly wilderness. Up there hunting is a part of life and I'm sure every family owns shotguns for hunting. I'm not sure about wolves being a big threat, but I know that bears are becoming a problem in some parts of northen Sweden as they have increased in numbers these last 5-10 years.


From:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Finland
And reading the sections Regulations I find this:
It's the same as in Sweden with perhaps exception for that part: souvenir.

Anyway, keeping guns of different sorts for personal protection isn't common at all over here and I sincerely hope it stays that way.
Not sure the guns specifically have to do with crime though. I think there are other factors that come into play. Russia has very strict gun laws but has some very high murder rates, same with South Africa which has virtually banned new gun sales and it has the highest murder rates in the world.

There was a study done on Europe and guns, it is quite interesting if you would like to take a look.

This Harvard Study clearly demonstrates the flaws, deliberate or honest, in other 'studies' such as that Kellerman fiasco.

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...useronline.pdf

It also addresses why comparisons between American and European gun crime rates are unrealistic and slanted. In section II, focuses on the myth of "less guns=less suicides".

Harvard Law Website: http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/

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I still don't get what's so interesting about guns.
I'm sure there are plenty of things you don't get?

I like history. Guns are historic. But more than that, I can think of no other hobby that opens such a wide variety of scientific, historical and social topics. Do golfers discuss the metallurgy in their clubs? No. Do bowlers discuss the historical significance of the pins? No. Guns, reloading and shooting have introduced me to metallurgy, history, physics, chemistry, research, mathematics, social studies, law, politics, military history, wildlife biology, mechanics and a host of other sciences.

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I have no idea why a civilian person should or would own an automatic machinegun rifle whatnot like that thing in the first post? I kind of get it why someone would own a handgun to go shoot at some gun club.

I know that I'll never own a firearm in my life, no need for such and I got enough "exciment" concerning guns in the army already years ago.
Maybe if you took the time to get past emotional feelings and what you see in a picture, you would have taken the time to read that I wrote it is a "semi-automatic" firearm, not a fully automatic machine gun.
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Old 06-20-2007, 06:39 AM   #39
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May I be the first to recommend Gun Digest 2007.
Thanks Gil
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Old 06-20-2007, 06:45 AM   #40
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The new rifle the Israelis are using is supposed to replace the m16/m4 over time. It is developed by IWI (Israel Weapons Industries) and known as the Tavor TAR-21. The weapon is being used to a limited extent currently by special forces and certain units. It's based off the m16 design in ways but due to the bullpup design, the gun is much shorter so it's more compact. Currently the gun is being exported to Colombia (i've already seen pictures of it in use there), India (they have a license to produce it), Portugal, Georgia, Germany, and Costa Rica. It's not a bad weapon especially if it is going to be used for urban warfare. If I were fighting in the desert, I would want a Galil however.
Heh. I've got to be the only person on the planet with a terrible dislike of the M-16. As far as being modular, yes. A lot of NATO rifles, like the L85, have interchangable magazines with the rifle, and the M203 has certainly proved itself over and over again, but as far as a civilian rifle it's just not what I would ever be interested in. Still, to each his own.

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I'm sure there are plenty of things you don't get?

I like history. Guns are historic. But more than that, I can think of no other hobby that opens such a wide variety of scientific, historical and social topics. Do golfers discuss the metallurgy in their clubs? No. Do bowlers discuss the historical significance of the pins? No. Guns, reloading and shooting have introduced me to metallurgy, history, physics, chemistry, research, mathematics, social studies, law, politics, military history, wildlife biology, mechanics and a host of other sciences.
Agreed. Firearms are in themselves a science. Also, I'm sure zoologists can't understand why someone would be interested in astrophysics. The biologist can't understand why some people are attracted to computer science, or the geologist equally is stumped as to the fascination with political science. It's just a matter of personal interest in a subject.

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Thanks Gil
No problem.
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