[PILMAN]

I was looking on youtube on firearms and it seems that a general stereotype is that the average gun owner is a shady person up to no good or some kind of criminal or a cop. I just ordered a book on artwork reflecting gun owners around the United States and needless to say it looks interesting, heres a video on the artist about 6 minutes long taking pictures of gun owners around the United States, many the least likely people you would expect to be gun owners. While many people live in towns that they think is a gun free place and they know of "nobody else" who would own a gun, they would be surprised how many do own guns but their neighbors are not aware of them owning them because they keep quiet about it.

Anyways heres some information about it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LOAJgtHSo...elated&search=

"Roughly half of all American homes have guns. But, why? Because it is our constitutional right? For protection? For the joy of hunting and sport?

In 2004 after a fractious election in which the gun argument played a significant part, photo-journalist Kyle Cassidy hit the road to learn why so many people owned so many guns. His search for answers took him
on a journey that extended over two years and 15,000 miles. Ultimately, more than a hundred gun owners opened their doors and their lives to him, answering the single question he asked: "why". The result is a
collection of striking and thought provoking photographs: ARMED AMERICA: Portraits of Gun Owners in Their Homes (Krause Publications; August 2007; Hardcover).

Few issues generate as much debate as firearms. Without taking a pro or con stance, ARMED AMERICA shows the faces of American gun owners and gives voice to each individual "why"...without ancillary comment, editorializing, or judgment. These "everyman" portraits reveal people
from different backgrounds, living in various locations, with one common
connection"

Heres his website as well

http://www.armedamerica.org/

He is neither pro or anti gun, just letting people make the decision for themselves to realize that the majority of Americans who own firearms are normal people.

[Hammerite]

* sighs *

[jacog]

Whooptie-freakin-doo.

[PILMAN]

Gee, so many people stereotype gun owners as being criminals, shady people, rednecks, hillbillys, and white supremists. Does it surprise anyone that your coworkers or people you know could own firearms? The book is nothing more than to show "who" the gun owners of America are and not the twisted warped view that the media and michael moores bowling for columbine show. Michael Moores documentary showed gun owners as paranoid tinfoil hat loonies living in isolated areas like farms or as people wearing camouflage living out in the middle of the woods in a tent isolated. The media loves to paint a negative picture of gun owners that somehow we're a minority and only the crazy people need a gun.

It's funny how most of the people who are anti-gun preach how it's none of the governments business what someone does in their bedroom relating to gay marriage, odd that it's acceptable that it's the governments business what guns I own though.

[Starflux]

The difference, obviously, is that guns pose a serious threat to other human lives, whereas sexual preference -in most cases- does not.

[Hammerite]

It could if your penis shot acid.

[jacog]

PILMAN, your gun-fetish is just a phase that will pass as you mature. You will grow chest hair, stop fantacising about being a ninja, lose interest in WWE wrestling and monster trucks, won't laugh every time you hear someone fart, and so forth.

Good luck to ya.

[PILMAN]

Originally Posted by Starflux

The difference, obviously, is that guns pose a serious threat to other human lives, whereas sexual preference -in most cases- does not.

Mine must be defective then.

Seriously anything can pose a serious threat, you can buy materials from a store to build a bomb, my car can pose a serious threat, it's all about responsibility. The fact is that the right to bear arms is covered under the constitution and when a democrat claims they are for civil rights then they are nothing more than a bunch of hypocrites when they claim the right to bear arms doesn't apply to people. They will make up any excuse they can to try to take guns out of the hands of the people.

Originally Posted by jacog

PILMAN, your gun-fetish is just a phase that will pass as you mature. You will grow chest hair, stop fantacising about being a ninja, lose interest in WWE wrestling and monster trucks, won't laugh every time you hear someone fart, and so forth.

Good luck to ya.

I've watched wrestling for 12 years, doubt i'm going to lose interest now. It's a hobby, not a fetish. Thanks for being so judgemental though, is that the best you can come up with?

[Hammerite]

Originally Posted by PILMAN

Mine must be defective then.

Your gun or your sexual preference?

[PILMAN]

Originally Posted by Hammerite

Your gun or your sexual preference?

"The difference, obviously, is that guns pose a serious threat to other human lives, whereas sexual preference -in most cases- does not."

See the quote.

[Jatsie]

Originally Posted by PILMAN

It's funny how most of the people who are anti-gun preach how it's none of the governments business what someone does in their bedroom relating to gay marriage, odd that it's acceptable that it's the governments business what guns I own though.

I don't wish to feed the troll, but I can scarcely recall ever having heard a worse analogy.

The gay marriage issue is about extending a right that is already afforded to one to group, to a section of society that is being discriminated against.

Gun control is more akin to drug control. The government has a right, nay, a duty, to protect society at large from potentially dangerous influences. If you believe it's none of the government's business what guns you own, do you also believe it's none of the government's business if somebody wishes to peddle heroin on your street corner?

[PILMAN]

Originally Posted by Jat316sob

I don't wish to feed the troll, but I can scarcely recall ever having heard a worse analogy.

The gay marriage issue is about extending a right that is already afforded to one to group, to a section of society that is being discriminated against.

Gun control is more akin to drug control. The government has a right, nay, a duty, to protect society at large from potentially dangerous influences. If you believe it's none of the government's business what guns you own, do you also believe it's none of the government's business if somebody wishes to peddle heroin on your street corner?

Personally I'm against the government regulating what someone does to their body, however drugs were never covered under the constitution to begin with. Comparing guns to drugs is a nill point as guns are not illegal to posess. If drugs were covered under the constitution then I would certainly have an arguement. I am for less government restriction of the people, as long as I am not causing harm to someone, then why is it their business if I own firearms?

The same analogy could be applied to abortion, there are disputes that it's a womans body and then there are disputes that a baby has rights as well. That's a hot topic though and i'd prefer not to debate about that.

[PILMAN]

Anti-defense legislator uses gun to defend himself...

Texas lawmaker shoots would-be thief, police say

07/09/2007

Associated Press


A state lawmaker who opposed a bill giving Texans stronger right to defend themselves with deadly force pulled a gun and shot a man he says was trying to steal copper wiring from a construction site, police said Monday.

Rep. Borris Miles told police he was fixing a leak on the second floor of the Houston house he's building Sunday night when he heard a noise downstairs and saw two men trying to steal the copper. After Miles confronted the pair, one of the men threw a pocketknife at him, Houston Police spokesman Victor Senties.

Miles, a former law enforcement officer, shot the man in the left leg, police said. The wounded suspect was being treated at a Houston hospital. Police were trying to identify the other suspect.

Charges of aggravated robbery are pending against the wounded suspect, Senties said.

Police said Miles, who is in his freshman term, is licensed to carry a concealed weapon. No charges have been filed against Miles, Senties said.

Miles, a Democrat, voted against a bill that gives Texans stronger legal right to defend themselves with deadly force in their homes, vehicles, and workplaces. The so-called "castle doctrine," passed by the Legislature this year, states that a person has no duty to retreat from an intruder before using deadly force. The law goes into effect Sept. 1.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sharedco...D8Q97AV01.html

So these are the type of people in America passing laws that harm gun owners? I guess they are exempt. That's right it was done for the good of the people.

[Hammerite]

This is one person, who hardly represents all of the anti-gun law people. You could just as easily say the same, albeit with more evidence, about pro-gun law people.

[Jatsie]

Originally Posted by PILMAN

Comparing guns to drugs is a nill point as guns are not illegal to posess.

That's not true though.

A doctor can prescribe morphine to a patient, but it's illegal to posess heroin, just as you can own a revolver, but not a fully automatic weapon.

[Starflux]

I'm actually not particularly against gun ownership from a, like, moral perspective. What is a fact though is that a gun is a tool for killing. It's a dangerous thing to have because it enables people to do serious harm in their moments of greatest weakness, when they succumb to rage or other anxieties. Of course, in the end, it is the people that do it, not the guns, but even so, society hardly needs every person to own weapons. In another post, you make it seem like it is the only thing that keeps a government from becoming a tyranny, but this is hardly what has happened in Europe, where no one carries guns. The argument is therefore hardly sound.

As far as safety goes, I am shocked that people feel so insecure on the streets in America. What kind of Mad Max society have you got going there? The worst 'bad guys' I encounter sometimes are people that openly laugh at me for wearing a cool hat. I've never in my entire life been confronted with a gun in a threatening way (i.e. as something other than a museum piece). Surely this is a much more relaxed organisation of a society than one where everyone has a cocked gun under his shirt, always on the look-out for some madcap aggressor?

Also; gun owners will state that guns are necessary to rise up to their government if necessary. It occurs to me that it has never been more necessary than in the last eight years, going from the amount of damage the US has done to international relationships and wars. But where were all the gun-toting citizens? Despite your guns, you are just as codependent and harmless of and to the government as the rest of us are.

[PILMAN]

Originally Posted by Hammerite

This is one person, who hardly represents all of the anti-gun law people. You could just as easily say the same, albeit with more evidence, about pro-gun law people.

What about these?

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...ered_to_s.html

NRA foe Jefferson ordered to surrender his Guns
Marc Sheppard

June 09, 2007

When Rep. William Jefferson was arraigned on a boatload of corruption and racketeering charges on Friday, he was ordered to surrender his firearms. Apparently, while the Louisiana Democrat stores his FBI-marked bribe money in his freezer in Washington, he stockpiles his collection of rifles and shotguns in his home in New Orleans.

Of course, the confiscation of all those people-killing guns from a man who will likely be on a federally funded meal plan until our next visit from Halley's Comet should help Liberals sleep at night.

But the specter of a gun-toting gun opponent raises some rather curious questions, wouldn't you say?

You might ask yourself, what does a man who, in 2005, voted against a bill to protect law-abiding gun dealers and manufacturers from litigation blaming them for criminal misuse of their products by others, need with rifles? Did he own them when he voted against similar law in 2003?

Why would a legislator with an anti-Second-Amendment voting record that earned him an NRA rating identical to that of Chuckie Schumer and Nancy Pelosi own multiple shotguns?

When asked about the Jefferson mini-armory by U.S. District Court Judge T.S. Ellis III, the congressman responded that the guns were for -- what else? Why, hunting, of course:

"I've been hunting since I was 10 years old"

Naturally, had the camo-clothed Liberal been involved in an accidental discharge while stalking gallinules on the Bayou one hot summer's morn', there'd have been no one to blame but Remington.

__________________________________________________ _______________

this off Fox news.....


STRATFORD, Conn. — An off-duty New Haven police officer shot and critically wounded his 18-year-old daughter, apparently mistaking her for an intruder after she sneaked out of their Stratford home and re-entered through the basement.

Eric Scott, 41, on the New Haven force for nine years, has not been charged in the Tuesday shooting.

"Mr. Scott was under the impression his daughter had gone to bed for the night," Stratford Capt. Thomas Rodia said. "He did not expect his daughter to be outside or down in the basement."

Investigators said Tasha Scott left her home late Monday to meet a boyfriend. She triggered a backyard motion sensor light as she tried to enter through a basement door.

Awakened by the light, Eric Scott spotted someone moving in the basement bathroom, police said. He fired his department-issued pistol once, hitting the teen in the knee. The bullet traveled up her leg and lodged in her thigh area, police said.

Her father called 911, authorities said.

The teenager underwent surgery and was listed in critical but stable condition Wednesday morning.

Scott has been on leave since being struck by a truck while on duty in November. A telephone listing for him had been disconnected Wednesday morning, and a message left for him at the New Haven department was not immediately returned.
-----------------------------------
Aren't police the only ones supposed to be qualified with a gun?
-----------------------------------

LAKEWOOD, COLO. --
The Jefferson County SWAT team is missing a dangerous weapon -- a sub-machine gun capable of firing 30 rounds in less than three seconds.

A relaxing night out for SWAT team members last Wednesday ended with a vehicle break-in, and the disappearance of an HK MP5.

The thief or thieves also got away with ammunition, bulletproof vests and other tactical gear used by the SWAT team.

Jefferson County Sheriff Ted Mink told 7NEWS, “It happened. It’s unfortunate. Hopefully, we can resolve it.”

Lakewood police interviewed employees of Jackson’s All-American Sports Grill at 675 Kipling and took interior surveillance tape from the restaurant.
So far, five persons of interest have been identified. One of those five has spoken with detectives.

The MP5 hasn't been sold in gun stores since the late 1980’s, and is now only available to law enforcement.

The SWAT team member is a 14-year veteran of the Jefferson County Sheriff’s department and a four-and-a-half year veteran of the Special Weapons And Tactics squad.

He is not on leave and is using a replacement weapon.
Mink said SWAT officers often carry their weapons and tactical gear, in order to respond quickly to threats, such as the Platte Canyon High School shooting in September.

“And I would hate to be the person that says, well, you go there but don’t take your equipment. Or, leave your equipment at home," he added.
While it doesn't appear that the deputy was violating any policy, .
Mink told 7NEWS they will look at how the weapon was being stored in the vehicle to determine if any policy changes are warranted.
__________________________________________________ ________

That isn't the first time it's happened, so much for civilians being the source of guns to criminals.

[PILMAN]

Even the liberal eliteist gun control activists are breaking gun laws, pathetic.

Convicted Criminals for Gun Control
I propose this new organization for convicted criminals who are against the idea of honest citizens owning guns. Here are some people I propose for charter membership:

1. Million Mom Marcher Barbara Graham (aka Lipscomb) was convicted of "trying to avenge her son's death by shooting a young man she blamed for the killing." Donna St. George, "Mother Convicted in Shooting," Washington Post, Friday, 2/2/01.
* I guess Washington DC's "common sense gun laws" didn't prevent Ms. Graham from acquiring a gun, carrying it illegally, using it to take the law into her own hands (against a man who turned out to be innocent), and paralyzing the victim of her violent gun felony from the waist down.


2. Former New York Congressman (now just "con," as in convicted felon) Mario Biaggi said that only police officers should be allowed to have guns. Civilian Biaggi had to surrender two handguns after he was convicted of a felony in the Wedtech scandal.


3. Congressman Dan Rostenkowski (D-IL) undoubtedly supported Bill Clinton's gun control initiatives. He had to do some time in the Federal "country club" after a felony conviction. PARDONED BY BILL CLINTON: NO SURPRISE.


4. International financier George Soros, convicted of insider trading
* News.com.au: "THE US financier George Soros was convicted of insider trading by a French court today and ordered to pay a 2.2 million euro ($A4.01 million) fine."
* Washington Post: "Soros Found Guilty of Insider Trading." "PARIS, Dec. 20 -- A French court today convicted billionaire philanthropist George Soros of insider trading for stock transactions 14 years ago and ordered him to pay a fine of $2.2 million, roughly the same amount he made in the sales."
* Soros insider trading conviction upheld on appeal (March 2005).


5. Amy Fisher
Associated Press, "Amy Fisher to Begin Anti-Gun Campaign" " Amy Fisher, who set off a frenzy of tabloid headlines a decade ago when she shot her lover's wife, celebrated the end of her parole by announcing her intention to work for causes aimed at keeping handguns away from minors." [Like the laws Ms. Fisher violated when, at age sixteen, she used a handgun to commit a violent felony?] "...Fisher was released from prison in 1999 after serving seven years for shooting Mary Jo Buttafuoco in the head ...Fisher was having an affair with Buttafuoco's auto mechanic husband at the time." Amy Fisher, a paragon of the character and integrity of the leaders of the anti-Second Amendment movement. Florida legislature candidate Eric Kaplan supported handgun registration, a ban on some firearms, and mandatory exams for handgun ownership. He received an "F" rating from the NRA Institute for Legislative Action, a true badge of honor in the antigun community. He chose a very dramatic way to show why certain people shouldn't have guns. Kaplan fired several .38 slugs into the home of his opponent, Robert Starks (rated "A" by NRA-ILA) and wounded Stark's wife, Judith. According to the Naples (Florida) Daily News (Associated Press), 10/13/97, Kaplan pleaded "no contest" to attempted second degree murder.


6.
* "SANFORD - A former state legislative candidate who was to be retried Monday for shooting into the home of his political opponent and wounding the man's wife instead pleaded no contest to attempted second-degree murder."

"Eric Kaplan, the Democratic challenger to Rep. Bob Starks, was accused of shooting the Republican lawmaker's wife, Judith Starks, in the leg when he fired randomly into windows of the Starks' Maitland home on Sept. 27, 1992."





These people believe that strict gun control laws should apply to everyone but themselves.

* Mario Biaggi:, D-NY former Congressman, now just "con" as in convicted felon
* Dianne Feinstein, D-CA
* Ted Kennedy, D-MA See Stephen Solarz below
* Carol Moseley-Braun, D-IL (ex-Senator, Illinois finally did something intelligent) "Anti-gun U.S. Senator Carol Moseley-Braun, a lawyer, who "doesn't know" whether her .22 caliber pistol is registered in Chicago, as required. [BTW, that's a crime ...] (another hypocrite) http://www.msu.edu/user/wholihan/gunquote.html
* Carl Rowan, Washington Post Columnist
* Stephen Solarz, D-NY "Anti-gun Rep. Stephen Solarz's bodyguards, recently arrested by Capitol police for illegally toting 9 mm semi-autos and assorted brass knuckles and blackjacks, weren't up to speed. Readers will recall that Sen. Edward Kennedy's bodyguard was toting a submachine gun when capitol police nabbed him in what the Massachusett's senator's office called a "technical" violation. New York's Solarz, like Kennedy, is a pernnial supporter of laws to disarm other people and a sponsor of this year's rendition of the Brady waiting period bill." -- American Rifleman, April 1991, page 20 http://www.msu.edu/user/wholihan/gunquote.html
* HCI spokesman Joseph D. McNamara thinks the limousine liberals, wealthy celebrities, and lords and ladies of the manor should have firearms, and to hell with the peasants. "As much as I oppose the average person's having a gun, I recognize that some people have a legitimate need to own one. A wealthy corporate executive who fears his family might get kidnapped is one such person. A Hollywood celebrity who has to protect himself from kooks is another. If Sharon Tate had had access to a gun during the Manson killings, some innocent lives might have been saved." -- Joseph D. McNamara (San Jose, CA ex-Police Chief, and HCI spokesman), Safe and Sane (book) ,1984, p. 71-72.
* Rosie O'Donnell. "You aren't allowed to own a gun" means YOU, not WE
__________________________________________________ ___________________________

Theres more where that came from.

http://hematite.com/dragon/policeguns.html

That link contains references to police mistakes with guns, and the public tells us only police should have guns? Heck one of the cops hid his gun in his oven so the kids wouldn't find it, turned out he baked his Glock by mistake.

[lanternlad1]

"The government has a right, nay, a duty, to protect society at large from potentially dangerous influences. If you believe it's none of the government's business what guns you own, do you also believe it's none of the government's business if somebody wishes to peddle heroin on your street corner?"


Now there is a bad analogy for you.


Drug control has done nothing but worsen society. Want proof? Pick up an American history book and read about a little thing we Americans dealt with called Prohibition. Or go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibi..._United_States

Prohibition was one of the worst plagues in our country's history. Violent crime skyrocketed, and society in general was done far more harm than good. When it was repealed, things went back to normal. If drug laws are repealed, many things will go back to normal, too.

My point is, whether it be guns, drugs or video games, the minute you start banning something, the perceived value goes up, and more people want it.

And what the human wants, the human gets. It doesn't matter where it is from, or who gets hurt obtaining it.

Guns will never be banned in America. America will be the last place guns are ever banned. GUN crime in Britain may have gone down, but VIOLENT crime in Britain has gone through the roof.

I dare anyone to contradict me.

I dare any Brit to look out of their window at one of the 4.4 MILLION VIDEO CAMERAS watching their every move and stop to think, just for a moment, "Why is that camera there? If violence in Britain is going down, then why does the government need to watch my every move? Why, to keep me safe, of course. But... I am safe...so why are they watching me then..."

If violence IS going down, then you are looking into the eye of a totalitarian government.

If violence is NOT going down, and the cameras are there "to keep you safe"... then you'd better try something else, because it isn't working, is it?

You Brits can lie to yourselves about your safety all you want. But I bet you ask yourselves, at night in the dark, just before you fall asleep... "Did I remember to lock the door?"

Alone, in the dark, you hear the sound of a window being broken. As you clutch your cricket bat, do you feel safe?

Well...do you?

I do.



But I have a gun.

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

Originally Posted by PILMAN

Gee, so many people stereotype gun owners as being criminals, shady people, rednecks, hillbillys, and white supremists.

You got a cite for that? We expect graphs and charts!!