[MoriartyL]

I've got a random question, and I figure there might be someone here with enough knowledge of MS Internet Explorer to answer it. See, I've been looking at statistics of people who randomly stumbled into my blog, and I've noticed a disturbing trend. Of the users who used IE6, one in three had Javascript disabled. (This is a big problem for me, since my blog uses a lot of Javascript as a matter of course.) Even worse? Of the users who used IE7, two in three had Javascript disabled! Now, the reason I bring the question here is that I myself don't know the first thing about Internet Explorer. (I use Firefox.) Looking a little bit more through the statistics, I found that no other browsers had this problem- it was only people using Internet Explorer. So my question is, what exactly is going on here? I can think of only two explanations.

1. On one of the computers in our house, some of my family members used to use Internet Explorer, until it mysteriously started malfunctioning and could no longer use Javascript. (Since IE is so integrated into Windows, this caused all sorts of unexpected problems.) It occurs to me that this might not just be a rare glitch, but a widespread problem due to buggy programming. This would explain why so many people are seeing my blog wrong.

2. Maybe IE frames its security settings along the lines: "Do you not want viruses to infect your computer? Then why not disable all scripting!". Maybe it's just a matter of a user interface which encourages paranoia.

If any of you use IE regularly, maybe you could shed some light on this puzzling problem. I've got a notice at the top of the page that appears for people who don't have Javascript support, basically telling them that they should just go away if they don't want to be missing significant portions of the page. But maybe, if this is a well-known issue, I could also include a link to some sort of fix in that paragraph.

Thanks for hearing me out.

[undeaf]

I don't think that's how IE frames it's security, just that that's what some people figure out. Also, last time I checked IE doesn't have any built in ad blocking features, so disabling javascript helps with that too.

[SoccerDude28]

The default behavior on IE let's you view pages with javascript on them. You might be able to disable javascript through the options menu (I don't exactly recall as I have completely switched to FF), but I don't know why anyone would want to do that.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by undeaf

I don't think that's how IE frames it's security, just that that's what some people figure out. Also, last time I checked IE doesn't have any built in ad blocking features, so disabling javascript helps with that too.

I thought they added that feature in service pack 2

[akane_t]

I'm personally not aware of IE having problems handling JAVA scripts. When I use it, it seems to handle JAVA scripts just fine. I think when you set the security setting as high in IE, JAVA scripts are disabled. Most people have the security setting set as medium though which should allow JAVA scripts. Medium is the dafault setting and I personally don't know anyone who changed the setting to high.

[undeaf]

JavaScript doesn't have 4 capitals in it and it's one word - Java doesn't really have anything to do with it, and I hear it doesn't want to have anything to do with it.

[akane_t]

Originally Posted by undeaf

JavaScript doesn't have 4 capitals in it and it's one word - Java doesn't really have anything to do with it, and I hear it doesn't want to have anything to do with it.

hmmm, so a Javascript is different from a script of Java applets? That's what you can turn on and off in IE.

Scripting of Java applets
- Disable
- Enable
- Prompt

I kind of assumed having that option enabled in IE would allow you to run Javascripts, thinking they are the same thing. I guess I'm wrong about that?

[undeaf]

No, that option controlls java, the option for enabling javascript is called "active scripting" IIRC.

[akane_t]

Originally Posted by undeaf

No, that option controlls java, the option for enabling javascript is called "active scripting" IIRC.

The same rule applies then. Under the high security setting active scripting is disabled. So if some security conscious user without knowing all the details picked his/ner security setting as high, you would have both active scripting and Java scripts disabled. I kind of like the fact that IE allows you to set your security setting at high without having to disable each individual option that might compromise your security.

[akane_t]

Mory,

I've cheked your blog with IE with having Javascripts disabled and enabled and it does make a big difference. I'd assume that like me most people who come to your blog with IE are not really aware of how to disbale Javascripts. They probably have picked the default security setting of high which would automatically diable Javascripts. They had to do this on their own though because I belive the default security setting when you install IE is medium which should allow Javascripts.

[Jolaes]

I am using IE7. I know the advantages of Firefox, Opera etc. but I need to look up VERY OLD pages from time to time which were designed solely for IE and look & work best with IE. However hard other companies try, there will always be a trick up Micro's sleeve to drive ppl back to the herd...

IE7 treats users as idiots (as usual) but more annoyingly than previous versions. Still, it allows running scripts by default. Add-ons like Sun Java Platform, Adobe Reader, Fileplanet downloader etc should work more flawlessly than ever.

[MoriartyL]

Originally Posted by akane_t

I've checked your blog with IE with having Javascripts disabled and enabled and it does make a big difference.

Yes, that's why I'm making a big fuss about it. There are even a few posts which can't be read at all without Javascript, and in all the rest there are little problems. But it sounds like I can fix this. You're saying there's one overall security setting which can be switched between "medium" and "high". without really explaining what each setting means? Then I guess it makes sense that so many people are coming to my blog without the ability to read it. A person who doesn't know any better is always going to take the highest security available. So if I just rewrite the no-Javascript warning to explain how to switch the setting, it should be fine.

So is it "Tools, Options, Security Settings, High"? Or what? I need to be able to tell them what to press.

[MoriartyL]

Originally Posted by Jolaes

I am using IE7. I know the advantages of Firefox, Opera etc. but I need to look up VERY OLD pages from time to time which were designed solely for IE and look & work best with IE. However hard other companies try, there will always be a trick up Micro's sleeve to drive ppl back to the herd...

There's a little extension for Firefox called IE Tab. With it, you just press a little icon at the bottom of the window and it renders the current page using IE instead of Firefox's own rendering engine. Just because there are a few pages here and there that can only use IE doesn't mean you have to use it for everything. You can use it just to display those few pages, from within Firefox.

[Jolaes]

Thanks for the hint, Mory!

[MoriartyL]

Wait- so no one told me what I should tell (potential) readers. What do you press in Internet Explorer to turn Javascript back on?

[Jolaes]

1st, if you want to be 100% compatible with the world, investigate the matter further. It seems the Javascript engine in IE is quite crippled...

You might want to start from here:

http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archi...nd_javasc.html

and ask your visitors

- if they have changed the Security and Privacy settings in IE7 if yes why
- if they (as administrators) have disabled any services
- what browser extensions are they running
- what internet security tools they use

There are only 3 items in the Options Menu / Advanced / Browsing (IE7) which are related:

- enable/disable script debugging (more useful to You and us (the testers) than to them)

- display a notification about every script error

- Options Menu / Security / click on Internet icon / select custom level / under Scripting, enable ALL, especially the first and last (Allow Scipting and Allow sc. for Java applets)


Also, give US the links to your pages so that we can give feedback.

[MoriartyL]

I don't need to be "100% compatible with the world", I'd rather just be 100% compatible with Firefox and have it readable on IE. There are always going to be small problems with Internet Explorer, like the size of the fonts and these little lines sticking out of columns. Those are acceptable to me. The lack of Javascript is not. But you guys have convinced me that the problem is most likely usually that the security is set to the highest setting. It occurred to me that I could check for myself where the security settings were in IE (since everyone with Windows, myself included, has IE). So I added a paragraph to the "no Javascript" warning describing how to lower the security setting from "High" to "Medium". That ought to do it. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, guys!

[pinkgothic]

I changed IE's default setting to have JavaScript turned off. I keep wishing there was an easy way to enable it on a per-site basis - having to enter the URL into the GUI for "trusted sites" is pretty tedious (or so I've noticed). It's that (and the "maximise all windows" function) that led me to use the more cumbersome but feature-rich Opera.

But that's not the question, of course.

I turned it off due to popups, really, though I'm sure there's a plug-in that does it more selectively than that for you. I also turned it off because I browser myspace, and some people are just ridiculous with mouse trails and related hogwash - that was what initially made me think to disable it.

You'll probably want to tell your users to put your site into the list of trusted sites, rather than revamping their settings.

In the bottom-right corner (IE6), in the status bar, IE displays what zone the site is in. Double-clicking that opens the list of zones - all websites are in "Internet" on default, which should always be a nice medium mix of security settings (well, IMO), and unfortunately, it can't be quite so fine-tuned in IE. Anyway, tell them to click on "Trusted Sites", then on the button "Sites ...", and enter the address manually. (Note: If they get a message telling them that they can't add the site, they'll first have to untick the "require https://" box.)

I hope that helps!

[Crunchy in milk]

I've always felt 99% of javascript is useless. Java applets too for that matter. They're either unnecessary wizardry or just plain bloat.

I hate Javascript because its used mostly to 1) block right clicking, 2) hide true url data by @#$%ing with the status bar - this SHITS me. and 3) loading those @#$%ing in window layer adds over pages. Popup blockers don't stop these @#$%ers loading.

[tabacco]

Originally Posted by Crunchy in milk

I hate Javascript because its used mostly to 1) block right clicking, 2) hide true url data by @#$%ing with the status bar - this SHITS me. and 3) loading those @#$%ing in window layer adds over pages. Popup blockers don't stop these @#$%ers loading.

Yeah, that pretty much sums up the world of Javascript