[remixor]

Look, the only "long-term effect" of not tipping servers is going to be those servers not being able to afford food for themselves and their kids! As BJ said, the only way you're going to get servers to stand up to their employers is when there are enough of them to make an impact, and this is simply not a feasable situation in almost all states. Theoretically, if every single restaurant patron in the country went on a tipping boycott, it might be possible to get enough servers to go on strike long enough to get some sort of federal legislation passed, but realistically you'll probably just end up with a lot of employees getting screwed. Not to mention, who exactly is going to finance a nationwide advertising campaign telling people not to tip? Not going to happen. And as someone else mentioned, restaurant prices would go up if such unions were instituted anyway. I'm not sure all the effort and probable damage would be worth it, if in the end you're just paying extra money in a different way.

[Zygomaticus]

I am usually wary with my tips mostly because I'm spending my parents' money...

But I always tip the barber lady, cuz she makes me look hot 8-)

[Kingzjester]

You know, it is topics like these that cause me to really freak out in the face of the Great United States of America. Even the poorest of the poor have been conditioned to believe that they too will be very rich some day, so they act as if anticipating their riches. No wonder this is the richest country in the world - and yet that is the only thing going for it: it can't educate its young, can't take care of its old, can't heal its sick, has no industry anymore, can't make a car that's worth a fuck, can't organize more than a rudimetary public transport network...

I just want to see that pile of money. Where is it, folks? It is apparent that somebody said to himself, 'Man, let's not use any of our insane wealth, let's just make a big pile of green and watch it fade in the sun.'

[remixor]

Yeah, America's status as "richest country in the world" is most definitely misleading, if technically accurate.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Richest, yes. Best country because of it? ........

[Zygomaticus]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Richest, yes. Best country because of it? ........

Obviously, "best" depends on one's definition of best.

For example:

Best military. I think so.

Best standard of living. Probably not.

[syntheticgerbil]

A lady from the Dominican Republic I used to work with said she could barely make enough to keep her own apartment on wages from two jobs, that she must have worked at least 60 hours a week between the two. This is in Houston where the cost of living is supposed to be lax compared to other city areas.

I'm scared of going out in the real world by myself.

[remixor]

No, that can't be true. The US is the richest country.

[D.C.]

The system is kind of confusing and I agree that it may be flawed but I don't think people should be complaining about the fact that they have to tip when in the United States, due to the fact that it's a custom of the country. I don't expect Americans to tip servers in Australia (for the majority of situations) because that's our custom. In my opinion it's a case of the saying 'When in Rome, do as the Romans do"

[syntheticgerbil]

Hey if I tip waitresses in Australia will they think I'm cute?

[D.C.]

I don't know... it's worth a try.

[Swordmaster]

Originally Posted by syntheticgerbil

You know though, without the tipping system, the waiter could just not care about you and still make his minimum wage without any worries. They would no longer be so obligated to be as prompt or polite. With tipping I can sort of buy a friendly face, no matter how fake it may really be.

I thought waiters are expected to be prompt and polite because that's a job requirement, not because they're tipped? An impolite waiter will probably lose her job, minimum wage or otherwise.

[remixor]

Originally Posted by SerialFreak

The system is kind of confusing and I agree that it may be flawed but I don't think people should be complaining about the fact that they have to tip when in the United States, due to the fact that it's a custom of the country. I don't expect Americans to tip servers in Australia (for the majority of situations) because that's our custom. In my opinion it's a case of the saying 'When in Rome, do as the Romans do"

Hear hear! It's kind of ridiculous how much I hear non-Americans complain about Americans being ignorant of the customs of a particular culture, and I'm sure in many cases those claims are justified, so it's very hypocritical to start complaining about one particular (and IMPORTANT, not frivolous) custom that should always be followed in this country.

[Swordmaster]

Originally Posted by remixor

Hear hear! It's kind of ridiculous how much I hear non-Americans complain about Americans being ignorant of the customs of a particular culture, and I'm sure in many cases those claims are justified, so it's very hypocritical to start complaining about one particular (and IMPORTANT, not frivolous) custom that should always be followed in this country.

Well, I personally did follow it when visiting your exotic and beautiful country last year because, just as you said, it's part of the culture. Doesn't mean I have to appreciate the reason, though.

By the way, has anyone got experiences about tipping in holiday spots (the Canary Islands and such)? I believe it's encouraged to tip porters, cleaners and such personnel, but is it voluntary or is it considered rude to e.g. not leave some money in your hotel room when leaving?

[Curt]

Accusing tourists of being tight-fisted just because they continue to tip what they are used to, and based on probably their own "holiday budget", simply because they've concentrated more on how they will enjoy their visit rather than "how must we live by their customs while we're there for a couple of weeks", is arrogant.

Have any of you considered the fact that the tourists aren't coming to America to ensure your faulty system is safe-guarded, but they are coming to have a holiday - which means enjoying themselves, often for the best price they can. Tipping less is, I doubt very much, an attempt to be a skinflint and screw the system.

Why do some of you guys feel the need to be so protective of such an appalling system that actually leaves your fellow Americans vulnerable. Stop blaming the tourists, who are already bringing their own hard-earned cash over to your shores.

Somebody is getting rich from all this tourism. It ain't you guys here, it ain't the tourists and it sure ain't the servers. I get the feeling that the animosity is directed all wrong.

Get a grip, people.

[Wormsie]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Richest, yes. Best country because of it? ........

You can now vote here.

One more thing: American waiters/waitresses talk to the money. If you want service, just wave you Visa in front of their nose. Cash won't help, because only those with a credit card have human rights in the USA. Everyone else is considered a pontential criminal.

[remixor]

Originally Posted by Curt

Accusing tourists of being tight-fisted just because they continue to tip what they are used to, and based on probably their own "holiday budget", simply because they've concentrated more on how they will enjoy their visit rather than "how must we live by their customs while we're there for a couple of weeks", is arrogant.

Have any of you considered the fact that the tourists aren't coming to America to ensure your faulty system is safe-guarded, but they are coming to have a holiday - which means enjoying themselves, often for the best price they can. Tipping less is, I doubt very much, an attempt to be a skinflint and screw the system.

Why do some of you guys feel the need to be so protective of such an appalling system that actually leaves your fellow Americans vulnerable. Stop blaming the tourists, who are already bringing their own hard-earned cash over to your shores.

Somebody is getting rich from all this tourism. It ain't you guys here, it ain't the tourists and it sure ain't the servers. I get the feeling that the animosity is directed all wrong.

Get a grip, people.

You're right that the servers aren't getting rich from tourism, when they lose money because people don't tip them enough. I never accused anyone of being "tight-fisted" or deliberately undermining the economy, and I'm not sure how you would infer such a thing. What I am saying is that when tourists visit a country, they should do their best to follow that country's accepted customs and if they know they're supposed tip a certain amount, they should do so unless extremely poor service warranted less. A restaurant tip is simply part of the cost of dining at an Americna restaurant, and should be factored into a budget. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. If people are honestly not aware of it, then obviously they can't be faulted, but at I know that everyone who's read this thread should be aware of it from now on. This is not arrogance, and I have many times seen Europeans criticize Americans for being ignorant of customs when abroad, so I think there's some kind of double standard going on. Furthermore, I would consider you the naive one if you honestly believe that tourists not leaving tips is going to somehow affect some kind of widespread economic change. And the reason I am so protective of this particular system is that it allows people in the food service industry to make a living wage. That comes before any vague and ill-conceived notions of toppling the tyrannistic economic oppressor. There are more important injustices in the world and in the United States than the bloody 15% service tip in restaurants, and the chances of this small infraction of human dignity being overthrown any time soon are rather insignificant. There are a lot of things wrong with the US, but why don't you go to an American restaurant and try explaining to an employee there why you're not going to tip because of your economic ideals, and see if they support your decision because it will one day empower them--assuming, of course, a vast majority of the country actually follows through with your unlikely plan. Good luck.

[D.C.]

Originally Posted by Curt

Accusing tourists of being tight-fisted just because they continue to tip what they are used to, and based on probably their own "holiday budget", simply because they've concentrated more on how they will enjoy their visit rather than "how must we live by their customs while we're there for a couple of weeks", is arrogant.

That makes sense, I kind of agree... that's why I'm thinking about it now so I don't have to think about it when I'm actually there. Also we can plan our holiday budget around restraunts and McDonalds taking the tipping into account. Either way I'm definately looking forward to this vacation.

[Curt]

Originally Posted by remixor

There are a lot of things wrong with the US, but why don't you go to an American restaurant and try explaining to an employee there why you're not going to tip because of your economic ideals, and see if they support your decision because it will one day empower them--assuming, of course, a vast majority of the country actually follows through with your unlikely plan. Good luck.

Remixor, my point that the system over in the US is faulty was simply an off-shoot to my astonishment that initially BJ pointed the finger at certain tourists, who have different systems, some how creating a poorer populace of servers through their ignorance of the system. I simply pointed out that it is a fault within the system.

You clearly disagree and don't think there is a fault in the system with your following comment:

"And the reason I am so protective of this particular system is that it allows people in the food service industry to make a living wage."

Applying the minimum wage would have a much more secure effect for the workers, especially with all those tight tourists around. Never mind. Keep burying your heads in the sand. It's no wonder Bush got in.

[Curt]

Originally Posted by SerialFreak

That makes sense, I kind of agree... that's why I'm thinking about it now so I don't have to think about it when I'm actually there. Also we can plan our holiday budget around restraunts and McDonalds taking the tipping into account. Either way I'm definately looking forward to this vacation.

Like I said, it was great that you took the time out to find out, SerialFreak. I hope you have a bloody good time. Just don't make any criticisms of their systems, some of them are a bit touchy about it.