[LostQuixote]

Originally Posted by Fantasysci5

Well, I'm sorry to always be blabbing to the blog, but I just need some support, and you guys are best. I ahte when I get "reprimanded" by the boss, teacher, etc, when I accidently do something wrong. I'ma big teacher's pet, and I feel so bad and guilty when they reprimand me for something. I jsut get so down, and I have to remind myself that they aren't personally attacking me...I wish I had higher self-esteem.

Hey I can sympathise with that, I used to be (well still am, except I don't have a teacher or a boss at the moment) exactly like that. Especially in work it used to get to me, up to the point that I quit (its a long story but the bottom line is my old boss = huge jerk), and in uni I just didnt put my hand up to answer anything which I think was the worst thing to do, I did get better towards the end of my course though. Well your not the only one who feels like it, I know I wasn't. I think confidence is the key factory, you just gotta keep reminding youself that your a smart person and that everyone makes mistakes (I know I do, a lot). Anyway you're a mod now so that should be a self esteem booster, just go boss some people round when your feeling down (jk), I'll have to start reading the blog

[Fantasysci5]

Thanks tsa and Lost. I'm glad I have you guys to make me feel better. I got over it, because I saw the corrections were correct, and were done in such a way not to totally destroy my writing ability.

[Squinky]

Originally Posted by Giligan

You and me both. Games are an iterative process, and it takes quite a bit of money and time to fully develop any good idea. Unfortunately, indie games don't have much money or time dedicated to fleshing them out, so they'll never have a layer of depth that a game with bigger production values will have. (apart from a few rare exceptions, like last year's brilliant Braid)

Were you around for this thread, Giligan? Your reply sort of reminded me of stuff that was said in it.

[Giligan]

Did it? I hope that's not how it came across. I remember that thread. I don't remember all of what was said there, but I couldn't disagree more with the whole "fan games are bad" thing.

[tsa]

Originally Posted by Giligan

You and me both. Games are an iterative process, and it takes quite a bit of money and time to fully develop any good idea. Unfortunately, indie games don't have much money or time dedicated to fleshing them out, so they'll never have a layer of depth that a game with bigger production values will have. (apart from a few rare exceptions, like last year's brilliant Braid)

Originally Posted by Giligan

Did it? I hope that's not how it came across. I remember that thread. I don't remember all of what was said there, but I couldn't disagree more with the whole "fan games are bad" thing.

Don't you contradict yourself here Giligan?

[Giligan]

Not at all. I can't really take any of his arguments seriously, because anyone who would say that "anyone good enough to make a half-decent game is likely to be already employed, considering the videogame world is as increasingly popular as it is" has absolutly no idea what he's talking about. Besides, while he did say a few things similar to what I said, I seem to remember him as having more argued that fan games are crappy because the original people aren't working on them, and that's not something I can agree with at all.

My point was that indie developers are just as capable as commercial developers with coming up with great ideas, but without the resources behind them to cut, edit, rewrite, hire good people, and pound ideas into something incredible, they can't really aspire to make games on the same level as commercial games. Fantasy said that the indie games she played weren't doing for her what the commercial games were, hence that statement by me. Unless indie developers can, say, put an effort into an indie game like that put into Indiana Jones and the Fountain of Youth, for example, I think they have to be content with filling a smaller role, building their ideas around less ambitious products, and doing more with less. But most indie games try to be something a lot more, and the production values (and hence the whole game) often really suffer. So it's a trade-off for indie devs that are working without resources. Do more with less and lack a depth of gameplay - which really doesn't matter to indie game players - or go for broke and make every aspect of the game okay (but no aspect perfect) and have a lack of depth in just about every aspect.

[Squinky]

I personally prefer indie because it's easier to express myself and my values when making a free game on my own than it is when making a game for a dev studio.

[tsa]

Originally Posted by Giligan

Not at all. [...]

My point was that indie developers are just as capable as commercial developers with coming up with great ideas, but without the resources behind them to cut, edit, rewrite, hire good people, and pound ideas into something incredible, they can't really aspire to make games on the same level as commercial games. [...] So it's a trade-off for indie devs that are working without resources. Do more with less and lack a depth of gameplay, or go for broke and make every aspect of the game okay (but no aspect perfect) and have a lack of depth in just about every aspect.

I understand and I agree with you. I also want to try to make an adventure game in the (hopefully) not too far future. I have many talents but the only ones useful here are my photography skills and the fact that I can come up with interesting stories. I don't know anything about adventure game engines but I have a lot of experience with computers so I hope I can get it together. But don't ask me to make a beautiful drawing, edit my photos or make a complicated computer program because, well, I can't. So I will have to concentrate on a good story with pictures of the loactions the adventure takes place in, like the MDNA people do, and probably my adventure game will either take quite a long time to finish (in which case I hope Fantasie will like it) or will never see the light of day at all.

[Giligan]

Originally Posted by tsa

I understand and I agree with you. I also want to try to make an adventure game in the (hopefully) not too far future. I have many talents but the only ones useful here are my photography skills and the fact that I can come up with interesting stories. I don't know anything about adventure game engines but I have a lot of experience with computers so I hope I can get it together. But don't ask me to make a beautiful drawing, edit my photos or make a complicated computer program because, well, I can't. So I will have to concentrate on a good story with pictures of the loactions the adventure takes place in, like the MDNA people do, and probably my adventure game will either take quite a long time to finish (in which case I hope Fantasie will like it) or will never see the light of day at all.

Sure. I was working on an indie AG myself, but eventually I became frustrated and gave it up, because I can't afford the tools (like Photoshop, first and foremost) to really flesh out what I had envisioned.

Originally Posted by Squinky

I personally prefer indie because it's easier to express myself and my values when making a free game on my own than it is when making a game for a dev studio.

Yeah, there's no way you could do what you do, at a company. Which is a shame, really.

[Fantasysci5]

I hope I didn't start an argument.

I love the thoughts and love put into indie games.

[Squinky]

The internets were invented for arguments, dear.

[tsa]

Originally Posted by Fantasysci5

I hope I didn't start an argument.

You didn't. I was just a bit confused by the apparent contradiction in Giligan's claims.

[rlpw]

We do not argue here. We discuss and have dissentions. And if it gets out of hand someone yells Hitler..... woops

[tsa]

Oh no! Somebody lock the thread before it explodes! The 'H'-word has been mentioned!

[Squinky]

www.catsthatlooklikehitler.com

[rlpw]

[tsa]

I already hate this thread.

[Fantasysci5]

You hate this thread? I love this thread. Let's me rant my problems and just chat.

[tsa]

It's a sort of inside joke amongst adventure gamers. It refers to this article, in which the tendency of gamers to dismiss a game even before it's released is discussed. I have the idea this tendency is a thing of the past now though. It seems we are now happily exploring whatever is thrown at us.

[Jazhara7]

Originally Posted by tsa

It's a sort of inside joke amongst adventure gamers. It refers to this article, in which the tendency of gamers to dismiss a game even before it's released is discussed. I have the idea this tendency is a thing of the past now though. It seems we are now happily exploring whatever is thrown at us.

Fur further examples browse some Dreamfall threads in the Adventure section?


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