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Home Adventure Forums Misc. Chit Chat Innovation, anyone?


View Poll Results: Does anyone around here like any type of innovation?
Yes. 3 23.08%
No. 2 15.38%
Maybe. -Ish. 1 7.69%
Sure, just so long as they don't have to do it themselves. Creativity is SO annoying. 0 0%
Ummmm..... 2 15.38%
Oh, leave us alone already. 5 38.46%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 06-28-2006, 03:19 PM   #21
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If you had given your thread a title like "Creativity Must Die", you would have gotten a thread that is 8334 posts long and counting.
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Old 06-28-2006, 03:22 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLacey
I think what surprises me here is the perhaps naive assumption that everyone on the forums is going to attach the same sense of importance to this thread that you do.


Seriously though, Mory has his ideas, and he shares them. That's great, let's hope there is someone who reads them and makes an actual game out of it. Mory has a point though, if noone participates, his posts remain kinda pointless. Look at this guy over there who has a thread all by himself and who keeps posting random youtube stuff accompanied by a bold sign that says DO NOT REPLY, obviously mistaking this forum for his blog.
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Old 06-28-2006, 03:42 PM   #23
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I love that Mory's always thinking about new ideas to experiment with in games. What I have problems with is when we try to give constructive criticism of said ideas and he just totally ignores it and tells us he won't actually use anything we say anyway (I'm referring specifically to the dialogue progression thread he had before), and now when we don't respond he complains that no one cares about innovation. It's a bad attitude.

I for one don't spend my free time thinking about ways to innovate adventure games, but I love seeing innovation and willingly tested Mory's dialogue experiment and responded back, only to see Mory barely even respond to my feedback. So what's the point?
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Old 06-28-2006, 04:09 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoriartyL
Every so often, I come up with a random, innovative idea. This is not the sort of thing that's going to go anywhere, because I'm not in the business of making games. And even if I were in the business, these ideas usually have no value except in the entertainment you get out of thinking about them, because most innovation is not all that hard to come by and not all that useful. (If it is some important innovation which would lead somewhere, then none of this matters since it obviously should be conveyed to as many people as possible whether or not there is any appropriate outlet for it.) Anyway, I like to share these ideas, because that's what creativity is for- putting it out there and seeing how people react.
See, I don't consider any idea to be great unless it actually gets put into action. And it's possible that some people agree with me.
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Old 06-28-2006, 04:10 PM   #25
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An idea that is developed and put into action is more important than an idea that exists only as an idea. - Buddha
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Old 06-28-2006, 05:05 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stepurhan
Yes, creativity is fun. But AGs aren't everyone's choice of outlet for creativity. There's singing, playing a musical instrument, dance, poetry, painting, sculpture, interior design......

I could go on but you get the idea. You're enthusiastic about AG innovation. Good for you. My preference is for poetry (a small amount of which has appeared in these very forums) I can't recall seeing any of your poems around here. Would it be fair of me to accuse YOU of not liking creativity because of that?
No, it most certainly would not.
Beginning - End

Get your facts straight.

Normally I express myself through my blog, which I have not posted on in a while because I am so tied up with one post, which so happens to be a poem.

Otherwise, I express myself through music, which sadly I don't know how to share here.

But "enthusiastic about AG innovation"? Ha! I'd prefer to be talking about platformers, or tactical RPGs, or metaludes! As far as my preferences go, AGs (with the exception of pure exploration) are pretty far down on the list. I started sharing AG ideas for one and only one reason: I thought the people here would want to share AG ideas more than anything else (because I assumed that they were enthusiastic), and I wanted to get it moving in a direction my fellow forumers would be most comfortable in. This was never for myself.


RLacey, maybe you can understand now why I'm upset. I didn't make this for myself - if I had, you can be sure it wouldn't look anything like that thread, and chances are it would have been on my blog instead of this forum. I made it for "you", whoever "you" is. And no one seemed to acknowledge that they needed something like this, which I find perplexing.


Spiwak, I think I understand your objection in that case. But I don't see how it relates to this. Bypassing the issue that that dialogue system was (and still is) a very important innovation to me personally while these are practically disposable, the whole point of the random innovation thread is that it should be a welcoming outlet for creative ideas. (Which is why I started with the traditional "happy moderator" style instead of my own.) It's about giving your ideas to an audience, not throwing your ideas to a pack of wolves to tear apart. And I made it clear that these weren't to be practical necessities or even good ideas - it just needed to sound like fun. So where does the argument about the dialogue system fit in here?

Now, as Squinky and Melanie68 have argued, an idea isn't worth much until it's put into use. I partially agree. But this isn't about value - it's about the creative process. Even if you don't plan on doing anything with it, it's a good creative exercise which makes you rethink things you've taken for granted and practice creative work. This seems like a worthwhile goal in itself. But the larger issue is that when you have a random idea and you don't even tell anyone about it, that is an idea completely wasted.
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Old 06-28-2006, 05:17 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myself
Otherwise, I express myself through music, which sadly I don't know how to share here.
Speaking of which, is there a way to share music I compose through a forum? I've always wished I could do that.
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Old 06-28-2006, 06:16 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoriartyL
Spiwak, I think I understand your objection in that case. But I don't see how it relates to this. Bypassing the issue that that dialogue system was (and still is) a very important innovation to me personally while these are practically disposable, the whole point of the random innovation thread is that it should be a welcoming outlet for creative ideas. (Which is why I started with the traditional "happy moderator" style instead of my own.) It's about giving your ideas to an audience, not throwing your ideas to a pack of wolves to tear apart. And I made it clear that these weren't to be practical necessities or even good ideas - it just needed to sound like fun. So where does the argument about the dialogue system fit in here?
The point of throwing new ideas around like that is for new opinions other than your own on the matter. That's the only reason I (or I figure anyone else) would post an idea in that thread. You apparently don't want us to give feedback about it, which doesn't make sense because the point of innovative ideas is for people to respond to them; I mean, why bother posting the ideas? After that thread I never felt the need to respond to your creative ideas because I figured you wouldn't care anyhow, is what I'm saying. Thus I never bothered with the innovation thread.

I for one wouldn't want to post the ideas that I had spent so much time thinking about and not even get responses about how to improve the idea or positive feedback or whatever.
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Old 06-28-2006, 06:32 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoriartyL
Speaking of which, is there a way to share music I compose through a forum? I've always wished I could do that.
To show the written music or for us to hear or both? I ask this not knowing of a way off the top of my head but that distinction may help.
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Old 06-28-2006, 07:26 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoriartyL
I started sharing AG ideas for one and only one reason: I thought the people here would want to share AG ideas more than anything else (because I assumed that they were enthusiastic), and I wanted to get it moving in a direction my fellow forumers would be most comfortable in. This was never for myself.

...

Now, as Squinky and Melanie68 have argued, an idea isn't worth much until it's put into use. I partially agree. But this isn't about value - it's about the creative process. Even if you don't plan on doing anything with it, it's a good creative exercise which makes you rethink things you've taken for granted and practice creative work. This seems like a worthwhile goal in itself. But the larger issue is that when you have a random idea and you don't even tell anyone about it, that is an idea completely wasted.
Then maybe most people around here have better things to do than think up creative, innovative adventure game ideas, and those who don't have better things to do are actually doing something about their great ideas. You people should really peek into the Underground section of this site more often.

As for sharing your music, couldn't you just find some web space at which to host it, then post the links here?
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Old 06-29-2006, 12:08 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoriartyL
No, it most certainly would not.
Beginning - End

Get your facts straight.
I stand corrected. I don't have time to read every thread (and the Battle thread didn't interest me in the slightest) so I guess I missed those. Sorry about that.

That's missing the point though. What I meant was some people won't respond because that's not the way they express their creativity. That doesn't make their lack of repsonse bad which is what you seemed to be saying.
Quote:
But "enthusiastic about AG innovation"? Ha! I'd prefer to be talking about platformers, or tactical RPGs, or metaludes! As far as my preferences go, AGs (with the exception of pure exploration) are pretty far down on the list. I started sharing AG ideas for one and only one reason: I thought the people here would want to share AG ideas more than anything else (because I assumed that they were enthusiastic), and I wanted to get it moving in a direction my fellow forumers would be most comfortable in. This was never for myself.
Then I hope you won't take it too hard when I say you're a fool.

If people wanted to share innovative ideas about games then someone would have done it already. As your thread has indicated people either don't have any ideas to share or (as others have pointed out) would prefer to keep those ideas to themselves and make games from them.

Essentially by creating this thread you've decided what other people on the forum think solely because they PLAY AGs. What's more you've also decided that none of them are smart enough to think of setting up a thread themselves to discuss ideas. What were you expecting? Waves of gratitude for you having been clever enough to think of creating the thread. That's pretty insulting really.

In future stick to creating threads about things that really interest you. Trying to second-guess a world-wide community can only lead to disappointment.
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Old 06-29-2006, 12:14 AM   #32
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(((((stepsie)))))

Brainstorming the adventure game, amongst other past related threads.

(I'm such a whore)
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Old 06-29-2006, 01:03 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiwak
I for one wouldn't want to post the ideas that I had spent so much time thinking about and not even get responses about how to improve the idea or positive feedback or whatever.
Have you even looked at the thread? We're building on each other's ideas and giving positive feedback all the time! (Or maybe that's just me.) Again, you're using an old post to judge a new one which serves a different function, following different rules. The two are not exactly comparable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stepurhan
That's missing the point though. What I meant was some people won't respond because that's not the way they express their creativity. That doesn't make their lack of repsonse bad which is what you seemed to be saying.Then I hope you won't take it too hard when I say you're a fool.
Thanks for the... um, constructive criticism there.

Quote:
If people wanted to share innovative ideas about games then someone would have done it already.
No, they wouldn't. Most of the time when I have an idea, I don't share it because there's no social construct in place to allow for it. Writing a whole thread is not a good option because that assumes that the idea is good enough to be taken as a thread-starter. The issue is not that I never have ideas to share- it's that I don't have a place to share them. I figure most of the people around here have ideas about AGs, and they don't share them because it's socially awkward.

Quote:
Essentially by creating this thread you've decided what other people on the forum think solely because they PLAY AGs. What's more you've also decided that none of them are smart enough to think of setting up a thread themselves to discuss ideas.
I'm the fool here?! Please. I have no idea what ideas people will think of- that's why it's open for any ideas. But when people have an interest in something, it is my assumption that they tend to think about it. Is this a faulty assumption?- do we have waves of braindead AG fans around here? Your second criticism is twice as ludicrous! When did I ever say this was such a crazy idea to start a thread like this? As Intrepid Homoludens delights in showing us, this was not the first thread of its kind. But what difference does that make? If I start a thread about teenaged adventure heroes, that makes me a fool for "deciding that no one else was smart enough to start it for me"? If I start a thread about the evolution of the point-and-click interface, that makes everyone else an idiot? What the hell are you talking about? I set up a thread because I thought it would be a good addition to the social environment. For that, I'm a fool?


Quote:
What were you expecting? Waves of gratitude for you having been clever enough to think of creating the thread. That's pretty insulting really.
I was expecting (assuming that the people here are of the same species as me) that people would recognize the need for an outlet for creativity and use it. This isn't about me- if no one acknowledged that I had started the thread, I wouldn't have cared. Stop twisting the issues so that they fit your argument.
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Old 06-29-2006, 02:24 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoriartyL
But when people have an interest in something, it is my assumption that they tend to think about it. Is this a faulty assumption?- do we have waves of braindead AG fans around here?
I have an interest in playing adventure games. I spend money on games and I spend time by the computer playing and being on this forum. For me it's a way to relax.
But I don't think much about this interest of mine when I'm not by the computer. I have a life and a family to take care of. Does that make me a braindead AG fan?
You're so narrowminded if you're assuming that adventure games occupies everybody's minds the way the occupy yours.
I think you crossed the line of what I accept with that really rude remark.
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Old 06-29-2006, 02:35 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by MoriartyL
Have you even looked at the thread? We're building on each other's ideas and giving positive feedback all the time! (Or maybe that's just me.) Again, you're using an old post to judge a new one which serves a different function, following different rules. The two are not exactly comparable.
I never said they were, just that because of the other thread I never really gave a damn about this other thread and reading your ideas contained therein.

But really, it's 3 pages long, which is fairly respectable. If you were thinking the thread would be one of those neverending 60-page long ones, well, I just don't think we have enough posters with that many ideas...
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Old 06-29-2006, 02:47 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelena
I have an interest in playing adventure games. I spend money on games and I spend time by the computer playing and being on this forum. For me it's a way to relax.
But I don't think much about this interest of mine when I'm not by the computer. I have a life and a family to take care of. Does that make me a braindead AG fan?
You're so narrowminded if you're assuming that adventure games occupies everybody's minds the way the occupy yours.
I think you crossed the line of what I accept with that really rude remark.
I apologize. I guess it was based on faulty assumptions.
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Old 06-29-2006, 02:54 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squinky
Then maybe most people around here have better things to do
It's World Cup time, dammit!
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Old 06-29-2006, 02:55 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanie68
An idea that is developed and put into action is more important than an idea that exists only as an idea. - Buddha
Absolutely.

Mory, no offense, but to me you come off as a pure attention seeker. All this talk about innovation is futile until you actually do something about it. Gather some people and create something if you really care about innovation that much. And by something I mean a game people would actually want to play, not some hermetic masturbatory artsy abstract weirdass under-cooked (I could go all day ) concept with no attractive qualities for anyone but yourself and similarly inclined "auteurs".

Though that's also a valid approach, I guess, everyone is an artist these days.
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Old 06-29-2006, 03:04 AM   #39
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...
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Old 06-29-2006, 03:29 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoriartyL
Speaking of which, is there a way to share music I compose through a forum? I've always wished I could do that.
That depends on what format the music is. If it's a recording, then just host it somewhere and link to it. If it's printed music, post a .pdf. If it's been printed using Sibelius, go and post it on sibeliusmusic.com and send us a link.
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