How to die from AIDS - Page 3 - Adventure Forums
You are viewing an archived version of the site which is no longer maintained.
Go to the current live site or the Adventure Gamers forums
Adventure Gamers

Home Adventure Forums Misc. Chit Chat How to die from AIDS


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-22-2006, 09:16 PM   #41
hello
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRUGAtes13
doesn't this point defeat itself? your saying that the person who is to die is desperate to live thus out of desperation takes a drug which they think might just keep them alive. and this makes it her fault that she died from the drug even though it was thought she never had the disease in the first place? WHAT?!

just because she was ill after she took the drug doesn't mean she thought it was doing her body injustice. the only injustice was the fact that an innocent woman was killed for the sake of experimentation, and if they cared at all then her and the other lab rats would have been well regulated by the so-called professionals to see how her body coped with the drug.
i have trouble beleiving someone would enter into a drug trial for a disease they do not think they have. would you?

Secondly, if your health is fine, and then starts failing immediatly after you start taking an experimental drug, if you are stupid enough to keep taking it i beleive it is partly your own fault. As i stated before, there is nothing forcing you to take it.
the fact is there have been many unsuccessful drug trials, some with tragic results. there have also been many successful trails which have resulted in life saving cures. Trying to make the people who are researching these cures look evil because of one tragic result is just plain stupid. yes it is tragic, but its not as if they knew the drug was going to have that effect, they were hoping for the exact opposite, if it the particapant CHOOSES to continue the trail, then the scientists can hardly be held responsible for their choice.
Litrick is offline  
Old 05-22-2006, 09:24 PM   #42
hello
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairygdmther
There's an issue that none of you are dealing with - she was pregnant! She wanted to save her baby as well - a pregnant woman will do most anything to protect her baby - even be sick as a dog, thinking that it would pass and the baby would be okay. Now tell me again just how voluntary this was for her.

Lynsie
completely voluntary, no one held a gun to her head and said "you must participate in this trial".

there were plenty of options available to her, some of which include:

1.) get another HIV test
2.) do not participate in an experimental drug trial
3.) terminate the pregnancy
4.) stop taking experimental drugs when they start making you sick

This story is sad, but it is clearly only being portayed from the familys point of view, which in no doubt biased (and understandably so)
Litrick is offline  
Old 05-22-2006, 10:23 PM   #43
Magic Wand Waver
 
Fairygdmther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 3,142
Send a message via MSN to Fairygdmther
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litrick
completely voluntary, no one held a gun to her head and said "you must participate in this trial".

there were plenty of options available to her, some of which include:

1.) get another HIV test
2.) do not participate in an experimental drug trial
3.) terminate the pregnancy
4.) stop taking experimental drugs when they start making you sick

This story is sad, but it is clearly only being portayed from the familys point of view, which in no doubt biased (and understandably so)

there were plenty of options available to her, some of which include:

1.) get another HIV test - it may not have occurred to her if she was not medically savvy - not everyone is, you know
2.) do not participate in an experimental drug trial it may have been presented to her that this may be her only way to save herself and her child
3.) terminate the pregnancy this was her child, and a wanted pregnancy
4.) stop taking experimental drugs when they start making you sick and how do you determine if it is the pregnancy, the drugs or the AIDS that's making you sick? - she did report that to them, though
__________________
Nothing can bring you peace but yourself.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Fairygdmther is offline  
Old 05-23-2006, 02:35 AM   #44
Party On Dudes
 
SCRUGAtes13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: West Sussex, England
Posts: 1,290
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litrick
i have trouble beleiving someone would enter into a drug trial for a disease they do not think they have. would you?

Secondly, if your health is fine, and then starts failing immediatly after you start taking an experimental drug, if you are stupid enough to keep taking it i beleive it is partly your own fault. As i stated before, there is nothing forcing you to take it.
the fact is there have been many unsuccessful drug trials, some with tragic results. there have also been many successful trails which have resulted in life saving cures. Trying to make the people who are researching these cures look evil because of one tragic result is just plain stupid. yes it is tragic, but its not as if they knew the drug was going to have that effect, they were hoping for the exact opposite, if it the particapant CHOOSES to continue the trail, then the scientists can hardly be held responsible for their choice.
erm...what? i never said she knew she didn't have aids, i said that she never had it meaning she never knew about it. and the rest of your comment is just going backwards into what has already been discussed.
__________________
(zombies) ATE MY NEIGHBORS!

www.myspace.com/rabhiphop
SCRUGAtes13 is offline  
Old 05-23-2006, 12:57 PM   #45
hello
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRUGAtes13
erm...what? i never said she knew she didn't have aids, i said that she never had it meaning she never knew about it. and the rest of your comment is just going backwards into what has already been discussed.
if she "never knew about it", why did she enter into a drug trial for it?
Litrick is offline  
Old 05-23-2006, 01:05 PM   #46
hello
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairygdmther
there were plenty of options available to her, some of which include:

1.) get another HIV test - it may not have occurred to her if she was not medically savvy - not everyone is, you know
2.) do not participate in an experimental drug trial it may have been presented to her that this may be her only way to save herself and her child
3.) terminate the pregnancy this was her child, and a wanted pregnancy
4.) stop taking experimental drugs when they start making you sick and how do you determine if it is the pregnancy, the drugs or the AIDS that's making you sick? - she did report that to them, though
1.) Ok, so now because she didnt get another HIV test, its someone elses fault other than hers for "not being medically savvy"...hmmm

2.) yoiu say it "MAY" have been presented to her like this... speculation, and besides, you still have a choice even if it was presented to you this way, experimental drug trials are not something to enter into lightly

3.) fair enough, i was just saying that is an option, all be it an unwanted one because of emotion. (logically is a different story)

4.) Well if it is as the story claims, she was a pillar of health until the second she started taking the drugs... fairly easy conclusion to make
Litrick is offline  
Old 05-23-2006, 01:11 PM   #47
Super Moderator
 
Melanie68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,907
Default

What do you know about clinical trials? They have to be approved by a committee of people (that includes scientists and non scientists). Unfortunately they have never been perfect and probalby still aren't. First of all, a patient has to agree to be in one and they get a consent form that is supposed to fully inform them of everything that will or may happen. But unfortunately, not all consent forms are perfectly drafted and sometimes clinical trial doctors may gloss over the unpleasentness of the clinical trial. Also, it depends on what phase the drug is in. Is it a Phase I, II or III clincal trial. I'm sure people don't enter lightly but they still don't always think about the possible bad effects (it's called human nature). As well, it shouldn't have been her decision to get a second AIDS test. That should have been a knee jerk reaction by any of her doctors who saw her first positive test. Not her fault.
Melanie68 is offline  
Old 05-23-2006, 01:21 PM   #48
Magic Wand Waver
 
Fairygdmther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 3,142
Send a message via MSN to Fairygdmther
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litrick
1.) Ok, so now because she didnt get another HIV test, its someone elses fault other than hers for "not being medically savvy"...hmmm

2.) yoiu say it "MAY" have been presented to her like this... speculation, and besides, you still have a choice even if it was presented to you this way, experimental drug trials are not something to enter into lightly

3.) fair enough, i was just saying that is an option, all be it an unwanted one because of emotion. (logically is a different story)

4.) Well if it is as the story claims, she was a pillar of health until the second she started taking the drugs... fairly easy conclusion to make
First I'd like to say this - the world is not as black and white as you perceive it. I've been a nurse for 39 years, and seen a lot of people intimidated by their docs into doing something they didn't want to do.

1.) Ok, so now because she didnt get another HIV test, its someone elses fault other than hers for "not being medically savvy"...hmmm

If the lab test says it's AIDS and the doc says so, she may be too timid to ask or the doc could have said it wasn't necessary, or was told that her insurance wouldn't pay for a second test.

2.) you say it "MAY" have been presented to her like this... speculation, and besides, you still have a choice even if it was presented to you this way, experimental drug trials are not something to enter into lightly

I'm sure she didn't enter into it lightly - she saw it as hope for her and her child - she obviously didn't give informed consent to this knowing that death might ensue.

3.) fair enough, i was just saying that is an option, all be it an unwanted one because of emotion. (logically is a different story)

4.) Well if it is as the story claims, she was a pillar of health until the second she started taking the drugs... fairly easy conclusion to make

I'm sure she didn't die the day after receiving the drugs - there is a progression there, as well as with her pregnancy, and with AIDS - perhaps even over several months. Let me say this - don't become a doctor - you don't have the skills, people or logical.

Lynsie
__________________
Nothing can bring you peace but yourself.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Fairygdmther is offline  
Old 05-23-2006, 01:22 PM   #49
hello
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanie68
What do you know about clinical trials? They have to be approved by a committee of people (that includes scientists and non scientists). Unfortunately they have never been perfect and probalby still aren't. First of all, a patient has to agree to be in one and they get a consent form that is supposed to fully inform them of everything that will or may happen. But unfortunately, not all consent forms are perfectly drafted and sometimes clinical trial doctors may gloss over the unpleasentness of the clinical trial. Also, it depends on what phase the drug is in. Is it a Phase I, II or III clincal trial. I'm sure people don't enter lightly but they still don't always think about the possible bad effects (it's called human nature). As well, it shouldn't have been her decision to get a second AIDS test. That should have been a knee jerk reaction by any of her doctors who saw her first positive test. Not her fault.

ok so these are the incidents you are saying MAY have happened, which amount to it not being her fault.

1.) not being sure she has the disease, but still not getting a second opinion
2.) volunteeraly entering a drug trial
3.) not reading the fine print and understanding the risks
4.) deciding to continue a drug trial, when it is clearly having ill effects

Those were her choices to make, and she chose badly, but her making poor descisions does not automatically make the people trying to help her responsible...
Litrick is offline  
Old 05-23-2006, 01:34 PM   #50
hello
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairygdmther
First I'd like to say this - the world is not as black and white as you perceive it. I've been a nurse for 39 years, and seen a lot of people intimidated by their docs into doing something they didn't want to do.

1.) Ok, so now because she didnt get another HIV test, its someone elses fault other than hers for "not being medically savvy"...hmmm

If the lab test says it's AIDS and the doc says so, she may be too timid to ask or the doc could have said it wasn't necessary, or was told that her insurance wouldn't pay for a second test.

2.) you say it "MAY" have been presented to her like this... speculation, and besides, you still have a choice even if it was presented to you this way, experimental drug trials are not something to enter into lightly

I'm sure she didn't enter into it lightly - she saw it as hope for her and her child - she obviously didn't give informed consent to this knowing that death might ensue.

3.) fair enough, i was just saying that is an option, all be it an unwanted one because of emotion. (logically is a different story)

4.) Well if it is as the story claims, she was a pillar of health until the second she started taking the drugs... fairly easy conclusion to make

I'm sure she didn't die the day after receiving the drugs - there is a progression there, as well as with her pregnancy, and with AIDS - perhaps even over several months. Let me say this - don't become a doctor - you don't have the skills, people or logical.

Lynsie
after 4 posts you can tell that i do not have sufficient logic skills, or people skills to be a doctor? Jumping to coclusions about a person after reading 20 lines of text they have written is the workings of a logical genius i suppose? get real, you know nothing about me....

now lets step back before you insulted me,

1.) pure speculation again

2.) Anyone entering a drug trial is informed of the risks, and should know there is the possibility of death.

4.) Well then if thats how it happened, small wonder it wasnt picked up. The story makes it sound like the effects were much more sudden and clearly related to the medication.
Litrick is offline  
 



Thread Tools

 


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.