[Spiwak]

I wasn't sure if this really fit into General or Chit-Chat, so mods, move accordingly....or whatever.

Anyway, found this interesting article when I was surfing:

Family Room: Churches use violence to develop warriors for God
By REBECCA VALENTINE
Posted on Monday, May 01 @ 09:58:02 PDT

There is currently a nationwide movement to use pop culture to bring teens to God through use of a video game called Halo 2. A Methodist church in Windsor used it recently as a fundraiser, and the pastor’s son says this was done to show that “church doesn't have to suck.”

Nice.

The idea is that the premise of Halo 2 is based loosely on themes found in the Bible, mainly good versus evil. What youth ministries around the nation are hoping will happen is this: A bunch of kids (mainly guys, because they are the primary audience and users of this game) get together to play Halo 2 during youth group time. Some of these kids are members of the church, others are outsiders, invited by their friends.

While playing the game, believers are to approach their nonbelieving friends with, and I take this quote from a Christian Web site called eteamrevolution.net: “Hey, have you ever wondered what happens when people die? I mean, in this game you can start over after you ‘die,’ but I don’t think that’s the way real life works. What do you think?”



After the unsuspecting friend has been blindsided with this evangelical bait, the Christian kid is supposed to ask his friend if he can share his beliefs. You can figure out the rest.

Halo 2 is rated Mature for violence, blood and gore, and language. Does this sound like church material? The Methodist church knows this and requires kids under the age of 17 to

get signed permission slips in order to play the game. Eteamrevolution.net acknowledges that the game is “extremely violent” with “plenty of cussing.” Yet somehow, they sanction the use of this violence and bad language if it can bring kids to God.

Somehow, SpongeBob is dangerous to the well-being of our children because he holds hands with his best bud, but letting our impressionable youth sit for mind-numbing hours on end, stalking and murdering an alien civilization with various automatic weapons, is encouraged. And yet we then shake our heads in dismay when our middle schoolers use foul language.

I understand that today’s youth ministry is searching for ways to attract new blood to the fold, but come on. This “if you can't beat ‘em, join ‘em” philosophy is a slippery slope. Christians are supposed to live their lives in ways that honor God, and though I claim no hotline to the Great One, I have serious doubts that he’s honored by his children taking delight in perpetrating acts of glorified violence.

The other issue I take with this fad is its unrealistic expectations. Very few teenage boys are going to evangelize while playing video games. Most of them aren’t comfortable witnessing to anyone in the first place; it’s just not easy for a kid to do. Witnessing is inherently difficult, and possibly for good reason: Religious affiliation (or lack of) is a personal choice, and it’s annoying to have someone try to convince you his beliefs are the “right” ones.

Besides that, what teenage brain is in the mindset to evangelize or convert when the focus is on annihilation of the world? Have you ever seen a bunch of kids playing video games? Their eyes glaze over, the minds numb. Porch light’s on, nobody’s home.

I’ll never believe Jesus is down with these kids blasting sentient life into Kingdom Come, regardless of the reasoning behind it. I know thousands of dollars are being raised for overseas missions as well as for those here on our home turf, but I don’t think the ends justifies the means. And I’m not alone. On several blogging sites, I found comments like this one: “As a Christian and a gamer, this makes my insides cry.” And this one, which was a response to the suggestion that gamers use the Internet to play with kids from other countries and try to bring them to Jesus: “I am both a dedicated Christian and gamer … Witnessing with Halo 2, eh? Maybe this I can use as a reason to beg my parents for Xbox Live … ‘Hey mom! Buy me XBOX Live and I’ll use the chat feature to witness to folks in Brazil’ ”

When people talk about being Warriors for God, I doubt this is what they have in mind. Playing Halo 2 is not a way to worship God. Encouraging kids to play a violent, inappropriate game — under any pretense — is not honoring God. It certainly does not honor the children. There are hundreds of ways to act honorably — speak kindly, do good deeds, stand up for those who can’t defend themselves — the list goes on. But promoting violence in His name is nothing more than hypocrisy.

Perhaps this blogger/gamer says it best: “I'm a sinner, but man, at least I don’t have to delude myself to make my life make sense.”

Amen to that.

I myself find it interesting how groups are going to video games to recruit, from the Army to this and apparently Islamic fundamentalist groups use US video games to train or something.

Your thoughts?

[SCRUGAtes13]

This isn't why i'm an atheist but it's a darn good example of how hypocritical religious people can be.

[kuze]

Recruiting through games isn't a new idea, take a look at America's Army. However, this game was developed for this purpose. Looking for religious patterns in Halo won't fail only for the braindead out there. Well, that's why this movement has success, I guess.

[Spiwak]

I mentioned the Army thing in my post. That unsettles me quite a bit too. I haven't played America's Army but it sounds like an average army-themed action game, the idea being to glorify violence to lure people my age to enlist because it'd be like playing in our own action game (yay...). Something about that recruiting tactic is very chilling to me.

[NcroManiac]

Ehh, It's just like they did with the comics. A war breaks out and suddently Superman is fighting Hitler and some random dude becomes Captain America.
Alltough I'm not saying that I like it.

[Aj_]

Christians in America give me the creeps, groups like this are marginalised in Europe, yet there's mega-churches, creationist think-tanks, "don't teach our kids sex ed" parents. At first I thought it was a small group of extremists, but that just can't be, there's a lot of popular support for this kind of crap.

I'm pretty skeptical about the success rate of this, out of the few that do come to the church not from bribery or family tradition, they're much older, and they make conscious decisions.

I don't much care for the glorifying violence, "games are evil", nonsense though. They're fictional characters, *starts making fingers walk", fictional characters...

[Dasilva]

Three letters for this article. W. T. F.

[SCRUGAtes13]

Originally Posted by NcroManiac

Ehh, It's just like they did with the comics. A war breaks out and suddently Superman is fighting Hitler and some random dude becomes Captain America.
Alltough I'm not saying that I like it.

what about this then?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pbWU...sney%20cartoon

my producer actually cut samples of this up into a hip hop beat ( ) , it's amazing, when i've finished with it i'll post that here too.

[Phantom]

I really and honestly just don't get religion.

My whole family is completely areligious. It's never even been a topic at the dinner table. It's never been mentioned or discussed when I was a kid. Jesus was just another bedtime story. That's pretty special, even here in Belgium, where interest in religion is rapidly dropping. Most of my friends have been to baptisms of relatives, even though most were not baptised themselves.

I really don't know any religious people well, and the few (one or two) people I know superficially that are openly religious have never talked about it with me. It's just not an issue in my life, and it's of no importance at all to me.

And I sure as hell am thankful for that. Religious fanatics either make me laugh, or creep me out.

[Jeysie]

Mmm. I'd like to state for the record that you can be devoutly religious *without* being a fanatic. (Though IMHO the people in the quoted article definitely have a few screws loose.)

At any rate... I do have to agree that I don't really understand religion/faith either, despite having been raised Catholic. But I have several friends of various different faiths, and they all seem quite happy and content with their devotions, so I don't press the matter much. It's also interesting to hear their various thoughts on the matter (even if my skull is too thick to understand them...)

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Starflux]

If anyone feels inclined to send me the Scott Pilgrim book, there would be theoretically nothing stopping them.

[SCRUGAtes13]

Originally Posted by Flux

If anyone feels inclined to send me the Scott Pilgrim book, there would be theoretically nothing stopping them.

i can send you frank zappa's 'catholic girls' instead if you like

[stepurhan]

I'm a practicing member of the Church of England. As such I see the problem with getting the message of Christianity to young people in any form. You need to find a way to get their attention before they'll even listen to what you have to say (and that's without actively trying to convert. Just wanting to spread the word)

However, I agree that Halo 2 does not seem the most appropriate choice. In many ways the central principles of the game go against Christian teachings (Thou shalt not kill) so you're giving mixed messages at the outset. Never a good thing whatever you're trying to say. On the other hand Christian focused video games have a bad history (and with good reason, most have been very poorly implemented)

I'd be interested to know if anyone (beliver or not) can think of a game that would be more suitable for this sort of thing. One that both presents an appropriate message but still appeals to teenagers. Is this idea a pure non-starter or is it just an ill-thought out approach?

[Spiwak]

Final Fantasy X. Just say all the evil crap is Sin/the Devil/whathaveyou and Tidus is Jesus...

Spoiler:

then again, Tidus did have a romantic thing going. I dunno

[SCRUGAtes13]

well i don't know about games but films like 'raise your voice' and books like 'enduring love' should get your propaganda train steaming!

probably the most suitable game would be no games at all, because games are something that promote only one thing: entertainment (and possibly a bit of informative knowlege/reflex improvement, etc).

i think that preaching religion is something that is wrong, when people come to your church (out of free will) that's the time to educate them, focus on your recruits now and less on making more people come to you, because if your church is satisfied then people may see that and want to join. and if no-one is joining maybe that's because we are more open in terms of sharing information and have just used our common sense...

[stepurhan]

There is a difference between spreading the word and propaganda. You seem to have got the idea that telling people about God automatically involves something along the lines of "Join us or Be Damned!" which isn't really the case. I'm also not quite sure where you're getting the idea that being religious makes you anti-entertainment either. We're ordinary people who like to kick back and relax as well you know.

Let me try making a game-based analogy. You find a freeware game that you really like. Since it's downloadable from a website its freely available to anyone that wants it. However, you find that, while most people have heard the name of the game, they really don't understand what its about. Some have even got totally the wrong idea about it. You think that. if people tried it they'd actually really like this game. WHat do you do? You tell them about it and why you think its good. You're not forcing them to play it, You're just explaining what its about and why you think they will enjoy playing it. Some people will just ignore you. Some will try it and make an informed decision they don't like it. But some will enjoy the game and feel happier for you having convinced them to give it a go.

You see all these fire and brimstone preachers on the television and get the idea that spreading the word is all about the hard sell. I can tell you that, for most of us, its just telling people about something we feel makes our lives better.

[Spiwak]

I'd still rather not be told anything about it by them. I find the whole religion-thing fascinating more from an anthropology perspective than anything else, but i find myself really annoyed when Christians talk about it to me. It probably is because of my automatic association with hard-ass Christians and the politics of it. Feel free to practice it, but keep it to yourself unless I want to hear about it (sometimes I have asked questions to my Christian friends, so yea).

[stepurhan]

Fair enough. I'm not one to foist my beliefs on an unwilling listener. Usually does more harm than good.

Just a thought though. You might find that starting threads with an article concerning Christianity tends to attract that sort of thing.

[Spiwak]

Like I said, when I want to know about Christianity I'll ask, so I hereby declare you officially allowed to talk about it here.

And the discussion isn't really about the Gospels, assuming Christianity, it's about Christianity the religion, objectively. The idea was for opinions to come out, especially Christian opinions.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

So, I downloaded the Condemend: Criminal Origins demo into my Xbox360. D'you think I'll find God through playing it, getting attacked viciously by crazed serial killers and bashing their heads in and blasting shotgun holes in them in retaliation?