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Old 05-02-2006, 11:41 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Karmillo
Like this one time my dog came in and he was like "Whoa dude this gypsie like totaly put this hex on me and I feel better than ever before!" so I bitchslapped him and was like "STFU! Thats not scientific!"
That's not fair, your dog can talk?





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Old 05-02-2006, 01:20 PM   #22
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[You didn't give details about your pain, Lena, so I can only give guessed examples... chronic pain can sometimes be caused by stress (I have problems with this myself), so it's entirely possible that "relaxing" enough *could* get rid of some of it.
I´m not going to bore you with details , but I´m prety sure that stress is what caused it from the beginning.

Quote:
I personally wouldn't recommend using alternative medicine in place of traditional medicine, but as supplemental treatment it could be an idea
For the moment I´m taking part of a program at our hospital´s 'chronic pain clinic' (expression?). It includes physiotherapy as well as cognitive therapy. I also attend letctures about anatomy, how stress affects the body, psycological causes and so on. They have a holistic perspective: mind and body work together.
I have no intension of using any other treatments. I have confidence in this clinic and also I´ve already paid my 900 swedish crowns ($119) which makes my county healthcare free for a year forward.
If I was to let my friend heal me again. I´m sure he´ll do that for free.
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Old 05-02-2006, 01:23 PM   #23
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Sometimes what is considered "alternative medicine" can make the jump to accepted scientific fact.
For example, at one point believers in folk medicine would drink a tea brewed from the bark of the willow tree to relieve pain and reduce fever. Some scientists scoffed at this idea, and dismissed any resultant benefits as psychosomatic at best. Other more open-minded scientists began doing experiments and discovered a compound called acetylsalicylic (sp?) acid was present in willow bark which did in fact relieve pain and reduce fever. This compound is now commonly referred to in pill form as "aspirin".
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Old 05-02-2006, 01:25 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenaJ
If I was to let my friend heal me again. I´m sure he´ll do that for free.
*grins and chuckles*

I have to admit that particular paragraph was a bit less advice and more a statement of my personal opinion on how I feel about alternative medicine in general.

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Old 05-02-2006, 01:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanie68
That's not fair, your dog can talk?

Well, it could, but now he's made it angry and it's giving him the silent treatment.
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Old 05-02-2006, 01:29 PM   #26
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Well, it´s getting late over here. I´m going to bed. I think I´ll do some healing on Christer tonight. If I had one of those smileys that Trep posts it would be placed right here.
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Old 05-02-2006, 03:24 PM   #27
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Some alternative medicine has been proven to work for some people, acupuncture, for example, is used to help people with arthritis and can help some people quit smoking. I don't think it's all psychological because most studies of acupuncture follow test subjects who receive real acupuncture and subjects who receive sham acupuncture. All subjects believed they were getting the real deal.

I do think people should be very careful when they seek help from alternative medicine practictioners. Some of it is obviously harmless, some of it could do real harm. Especially anything involving unorthodox "medicines", or something like acupuncture from someone who does not know what they're doing and is using dirty needles etc.
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Old 05-02-2006, 07:00 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Aj_
Where did you get that 10% figure? Not science.
I know that it's not science, but it does come in handy as anecdote. I'm not stupid, the idea is that we seem to depend a huge lot on science to explain everything that happens. But when something comes along that challenges scientific theory we insist that it never happened or is irrelevant.
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Old 05-02-2006, 07:17 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens
But when something comes along that challenges scientific theory we insist that it never happened or is irrelevant.
If a scientist disregards a study that is done according to scientific procedures (i.e. the experiment is reproducable, structured to reduce the possibility of chance or misattribution of cause, etc.) and produces results that challenge a currently accepted theory, then they're a bad scientist.

Peace & Luv, Liz
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Old 05-02-2006, 08:23 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens
I'm not stupid, the idea is that we seem to depend a huge lot on science to explain everything that happens.
It's the only thing we can rely upon to explain anything. What do you depend on, your gut? I don't like facts either, I think with my gut, not my brain. My gut tells me my gut has more nerve endings than my brain. My gut tells me people only use 10% of their brains.
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But when something comes along that challenges scientific theory we insist that it never happened or is irrelevant.
There is no scientific theory, there are scientific theories, and they get challenged and falsified, because it's science. If you're talking about things outside science like Creationism, then of course it's irrelevant, it's not falsifiable. Talking burning bushes, in science, and in my opinion, life, must be assumed to be myths, exactly the same way no one believes that the Sun is a god.

That's the only example of something (apart from another scientific theory) that has come along and "challenged" a scientific theory recently.

Last edited by Aj_; 05-02-2006 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 05-02-2006, 10:59 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Stoofa
Some alternative medicine has been proven to work for some people, acupuncture, for example, is used to help people with arthritis and can help some people quit smoking. I don't think it's all psychological because most studies of acupuncture follow test subjects who receive real acupuncture and subjects who receive sham acupuncture. All subjects believed they were getting the real deal.
I´d say although chinese acupuncture is an alternative medicine from the beginning it´s pretty much accepted by western medicine and is also used. That´s the case in Sweden anyway. If I´m not mistaken acupuncture is used primarily to ease pain and can be performed by fully qualified doctors (expr?) The scientific explanation that supports the use of acupuncture is that it has proven it releases the body´s own painkiller hormones (endorfiner in Swedish. didn´t find the english word)
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Old 05-02-2006, 11:44 PM   #32
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I don't see why it should be so hard to accept that sometimes, alternative ways of healing, or even healing sessions by a 'healer', could work. I've heard so many stories which I found easily believable. Not trying to be a Jedi here, but everything is energy, and why couldn't that pass between people? It's not SUCH a vague concept.
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Old 05-03-2006, 12:07 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Flux
I don't see why it should be so hard to accept that sometimes, alternative ways of healing, or even healing sessions by a 'healer', could work. .
I´m a curious person, I want to know what it is that is happening. In what way does the healer heal? Are we able to measure this energy? If not, how do we know it exists?
Quote:
I've heard so many stories which I found easily believable. Not trying to be a Jedi here, but everything is energy, and why couldn't that pass between people? It's not SUCH a vague concept.
My friend said: it´s all about heat and frequency. That doesn´t mean anything to me. Still I could sense that something had happened. Whatever it was it´s gone by now. All´s back to normal. If I try it again, I would be really observant of my reactions. Which also would make me vulnerable to psychological explanations that I feel what I hope to feel.
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Old 05-03-2006, 08:12 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flux
Not trying to be a Jedi here, but everything is energy, and why couldn't that pass between people? It's not SUCH a vague concept.
No, it's actually nanobots. Although I'm pretty sure it's the ghosts of murdered space aliens, and you need to pay a certain ammount to get them out of you.

Everything is energy, why would people be any more special than a spoon? Why would the transfer of energy(like heat) heal a person? I don't think you could be more vague, unless you are actually refering to the Jedi religion, or Final Fantasy...
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Old 05-03-2006, 08:17 AM   #35
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Spoon? There is no spoon
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Old 05-03-2006, 08:39 AM   #36
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I started out here to write about dowsing, another non-scientific experience I´ve had. It was long ago and I just came to think of it
But then I thought, this is not interesting for some of you, but those who are interested:
Read the article and get a branch (Y-rod) or steel wire (two L-rods), go out and try it. (It works indoors as well) Most likely it´ll work for you too.
I can find the Curry-lines. Don´t ask me how it works. There are no scientific explanation for it, but still..... there it is.
Life is a mystery!

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Old 05-03-2006, 09:05 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenaJ
I can find the Curry-lines. Don't ask me how it works. There are no scientific explanation for it, but still... there it is.
There is a scientific explanation, of sorts, albeit one you may not like...

Straight Dope article

(The short version is... it's your body movements doing it, not the rod itself.)

Peace & Luv, Liz
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"Is the Elemental Plane of Candy anything like Willy Wonka's factory?"
"If it is, would that mean Oompa Loompas are Candy Elementals?"
"Actually, I'm thinking more like the Candyland board game. But, I like this idea better."
"I like the idea of Oompa Loompa Elementals."
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Old 05-03-2006, 09:59 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeysie
(The short version is... it's your body movements doing it, not the rod itself.)

Peace & Luv, Liz
This is a piece of the article that describes "the short version"
Quote:
The Ideomotoric Effect
Take a paper clip and tie a 15-30 cm sewing thread to it. Rest your elbow on a table, hold the loose end of the thread with your fingers and let the paper clip swing like a pendulum right above the table. Then hold still and try not to move your arm at all. Now visualize that the pendulum swings back and forth, but do not move your arm! Does the pendulum swing? If not, visualize harder, because it will eventually move. The reason is not at all magic. What happens is called an ideomotoric effect, which is a subconscious movement governed indirectly by your expectations rather than conscious muscle activity. Since the ideomotoric effect causes such minute muscle motion, a sensitive instrument helps to make the effect clearly visible. This is where unstable systems are expedient. A very small movement away from equilibrium causes great fluctuations in the system. Guess why dowsing rods seem to move all by themselves! They don't.
The question is: What causes my skeleton and/or muscles to make those miniature movements at those precise places?
We were a bunch of people walking around with dowsing rods on a large schoolyard coverd with gravel. We walked randomly around and for each place the rod went up or down (it varied between us), we made a mark in the gravel. Afterwards we could detect a square pattern of lines about 40 cm apart and crossing each other at right angels.

And I´m not writing this to convince you of anything. As I´ve stated before, I very much believe in the nature of science.
Just for fun, try it out if you can manage to be as objective as possible to it. It´s pretty amazing to use the Y-rod since you´re holding it really firm with your elbows tight to your sides.
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Old 05-03-2006, 10:19 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenaJ
The question is: What causes my skeleton and/or muscles to make those miniature movements at those precise places?

We were a bunch of people walking around with dowsing rods on a large schoolyard coverd with gravel. We walked randomly around and for each place the rod went up or down (it varied between us), we made a mark in the gravel. Afterwards we could detect a square pattern of lines about 40 cm apart and crossing each other at right angels.
My question would be... you mentioned looking for "curry lines". Did you all start dowsing with the intention of finding said curry lines, or did you dowse first, then find out later that your grid of marks matched up to the concept of curry lines?

If the former, I might chalk it up to an interesting study of the subconscious and the dynamics of group behavior. If the latter, one could start to consider chalking it up to the curry lines/dowsing themselves.

Peace & Luv, Liz
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Adventures in Roleplaying (Nov. 19):

"Maybe it's still in the Elemental Plane of Candy."
"Is the Elemental Plane of Candy anything like Willy Wonka's factory?"
"If it is, would that mean Oompa Loompas are Candy Elementals?"
"Actually, I'm thinking more like the Candyland board game. But, I like this idea better."
"I like the idea of Oompa Loompa Elementals."
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Old 05-03-2006, 10:23 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeysie
My question would be... you mentioned looking for "curry lines". Did you all start dowsing with the intention of finding said curry lines, or did you dowse first, then find out later that your grid of marks matched up to the concept of curry lines?

If the former, I might chalk it up to an interesting study of the subconscious and the dynamics of group behavior. If the latter, one could start to consider chalking it up to the curry lines/dowsing themselves.

Peace & Luv, Liz
This was 15 years ago so I don´t really remember to be honest. I do remember the strange feeling of seeing the rod go down.
Did you try it yet?
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