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Old 02-04-2006, 04:51 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP
Just google "Jesus cartoon" or something similar and I guarantee you'll find very offensive pictures.
I don't want to. I believe in Jesus, too.
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Old 02-04-2006, 04:53 AM   #22
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Oh, I know that... but there is an unfortunate outspoken vein which is being blown up as being the only voice right now. Question is, is this the media's fault, or is it the fact that the moderates aren't making a big enough noise themselves? Why are the Muslim protesters voices louder than say, the Christian or Sikh equivalent?
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Old 02-04-2006, 04:54 AM   #23
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Quick moving thread. Although I certainly don't think you can compare the outcry re Dogma to what's happening here on the world stage.
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Old 02-04-2006, 05:02 AM   #24
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I've tried to approach this issue by looking at what I would do in response to people creating similar images attacking Christianity (as I'll happily admit to being the church-going sort). And I seriously can't get worked up to the extent that people seem to have done over these images.

I'm certainly not saying that they're tasteful, and I'm certainly not saying that I specifically support the idea of creating them, but I will happily advocate free speech. And just as I don't personally get insulted by watching The Life of Brian or Jerry Springer: The Opera, so too I wish that people would realise that this is all just a joke - albeit a tasteless one - and move on. After all, atheists tell me regularly that any form of religion is stupid, but that doesn't mean that I want to attack every atheist I ever meet...

So, to summarise:

These images - tasteless
The burning-flags, gun-toting reation in Muslim communities - equally hard to justify.
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Old 02-04-2006, 05:06 AM   #25
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The reaction to this issue is one of the extremest I've ever seen over such a simple thing as a cartoon. I get very uncomfortable when I read that people want to blow up Denmark, and decapitate the cartoonists. Isn't this behavior more disgraceful towards the Islam than the cartoon itself?

--Erwin
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Old 02-04-2006, 05:10 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mira
I don't want to.
You don't have to. But they do exist.
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Old 02-04-2006, 05:16 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erwin_Br
The reaction to this issue is one of the extremest I've ever seen over such a simple thing as a cartoon. I get very uncomfortable when I read that people want to blow up Denmark, and decapitate the cartoonists. Isn't this behavior more disgraceful towards the Islam than the cartoon itself?

--Erwin
Ouch! That is extreme.

Tbh I am not overly that angry about the cartoon. I only thought it was distasteful and offensive, that's all. I'm only questioning the reason it came about in the first place, that's all.

I just read the news today and read up about the riots in Indonesia, Turkey and Pakistan caused by the drawing.
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Old 02-04-2006, 05:18 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mira
Ouch! That is extreme.

Tbh I am not overly that angry about the cartoon. I only thought it was distasteful and offensive, that's all. I'm only questioning the reason it came about in the first place, that's all.

I just read the news today and read up about the riots in Indonesia, Turkey and Pakistan caused by the drawing.
Dare I say it, but Erwin does have a point. Isn't the Islamic community simply fueling the (hopelessly misguided) view that they all want to go around killing everyone in the Western world when they start publically burning flags, carrying guns to the embassy or issuing death threats?

I'm really sorry to hear about the riots, but they are just going to show how badly those people are overreacting .
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Old 02-04-2006, 05:20 AM   #29
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The link between a bomb and the Prophet in one of the cartoons is obviously made because of the terrorists murdering people in name of Islam. This small group of extremists have succeeded in portraying the Islamic belief as a very violent one. Why haven't I seen massive demonstrations against that? It's the reason why these cartoons exist in the first place!

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Old 02-04-2006, 05:23 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP
You don't have to. But they do exist.
Maybe it's just me - just happy to try look for a little piece of hope among this ruckus. Maybe it's just me being naive. I don't know. I'm happy to be this way.

Believe me, I've had a lot of pent up anger due to people's idea of religion. There was a time when I didn't dare to wear a skirt in my teens, because a girl from school told me that it's a sin. It took my mum a long time to coax me to try to live life a little. I started forming my own ideas about Islam when I was 18.
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Old 02-04-2006, 05:24 AM   #31
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Quote:
I read that people want to blow up Denmark, and decapitate the cartoonists. Isn't this behavior more disgraceful towards the Islam than the cartoon itself?
No, Erwin, that's just the orthodox punishment for desacration. That's what I wrote about above; it IS in the Koran. I saw a mix of decap videos of Russian soldiers, captured Americans, Swedish and other ppl. They like to do it slow so that the victims have some time for 2nd thoughts before they are choked in their own blood. These videos can haunt the faint hearted till their dying day.
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Old 02-04-2006, 05:24 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squarejawhero
Quick moving thread. Although I certainly don't think you can compare the outcry re Dogma to what's happening here on the world stage.
The difference is the media didn't give attention to the crazies that were making the death threats, because they don't represent the Catholic community. The average Muslim probably wouldn't know, and wouldn't care about this Danish newspaper. I think the outcry is being instigated, if anything Dogma was far more known, and there was greater outcry that was not media generated.

edit - recognise? whoops.

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Old 02-04-2006, 05:24 AM   #33
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I realise I might sound a bit harsh and anti-Islam, but please believe me I'm not. A good Moroccan friend of mine could vouch for that. I'm just very disappointed about what's happening at the moment. Disappointed, frustrated, and scared.

--Erwin
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Old 02-04-2006, 05:31 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolaes
No, Erwin, that's just the orthodox punishment for desacration. That's what I wrote about above; it IS in the Koran. I
I know what you mean, but I don't think that's what most Muslims are following. Don't forget that you can interpret the Bible very literal too! And if you do, you'll see that it's a very violent book. These books were written in a very different time. It's a shame the fanatic believers can't see that.

--Erwin
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Old 02-04-2006, 05:34 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erwin_Br
I realise I might sound a bit harsh and anti-Islam, but please believe me I'm not. A good Moroccan friend of mine could vouch for that. I'm just very disappointed about what's happening at the moment. Disappointed, frustrated, and scared.

--Erwin
I understand your fears because I share your fears, too. It's not easy being the voice of moderation when there is a huge number of people do not share my opinion. I don't know what it's like to be a Muslim woman in these countries (i.e the Middle East). Frankly, it makes me sad, frightened and disappointed. I am sad because people are always using religion as the base of their hatred. I cried when I saw the video when that man was decapitated. At the same time, whatever the Koran said about the law, you have to remember that it was written back in those dark ages. I doubt Mohammed would be happy to see how a lot of these Muslim turned out to be these days, because he never advocated hatred and violence. It was also stated in the Koran that we are not supposed to force anyone to embrace the religion - it has to be purely out of his own will. That's what I studied.
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Old 02-04-2006, 06:03 AM   #36
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Old 02-04-2006, 06:14 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erwin_Br
I realise I might sound a bit harsh and anti-Islam, but please believe me I'm not.
I don't think you sound harsh nor anti-Islam, sweetie, so don't worry.
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Old 02-04-2006, 06:28 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mira
I don't think you sound harsh not anti-Islam, sweetie, so don't worry.
Thanks

I'm much more comfortable talking about cardboard gameboxes and favorite LucasArts games, that's for sure!

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Old 02-04-2006, 06:42 AM   #39
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Here's a website with a different take on it:

http://boortz.com/nuze/200602/02032006.html

Many sides to a story.

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Old 02-04-2006, 07:57 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mira
Tbh I am not overly that angry about the cartoon. I only thought it was distasteful and offensive, that's all. I'm only questioning the reason it came about in the first place, that's all.
Speaking from a country where political cartoons are commonplace...

As AJ said, you can't manage to avoid offending everyone... the pertinent question is how many people you want to avoid offending.

Every newspaper or magazine that posts political cartoons - which are intended to make people think about political (and sometimes religious) topics in a critical light, and thus are going to be at least somewhat uncomfortable to read if you like whatever they're criticizing - draws its "offensive" line somewhere. If you draw the line in such a way to try to avoid offending anyone you lose the ability to make any real commentary. So you're going to end up offending *somebody* to some degree if you want to be able to make a point.

Now granted, I have no idea how they treat this sort of commentary in other countries, but that's at least an attempt to explain why newspapers might post cartoons that could potentially be construed as offensive.

Did the Danish newspaper draw its "offensive" line in the wrong place? Possibly, I haven't seen the cartoons in question yet. (Time to go Wikinews-diving!) So you write letters to the editor, or boycott the newspaper, or something peaceful of that ilk, telling the newspaper how you think they majorly screwed up this time. If people are in fact really getting violent over this, and/or criticizing anyone other than the newspaper and the cartoonist, well, those people really, really need to get a grip (on something other than a weapon, that is).

Peace & Luv (!), Liz
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