[[toj.cc]Phantom]

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=alisher71&items= 25&page=1&frompage=-1&iid=-1&de=off

[fov]

Ouch, indeed.

On the other hand, people should know better than to send a check or money order for such a high amount. You don't have the same recourse that you do with a credit card payment.

[Once A Villain]

I lost $2,500 on Ebay once. I thought it was going to be $5,000 since that was the full payment, but I got half of it back when I tracked the guy down through some connections, they got his cell phone number, and when I called him on his personal phone he was terrified. I made it worse when I told him a bunch of other stuff about himself that I shouldn't have been able to know, and threatened to send a hit man up to New York to kill him. He drove to the bank while I was on the phone with him, and he sent me back half of the money instantly (apparently he had already blown the rest) and begged me to give him time to send me the rest...

Since I had his name and everything I went ahead and told the police up there, and they said the guy had been using Ebay to rip people off for some time, and that they would put him away. He said he wasn't sure that I'd get the rest of my money back though because the guy blows it. I said I didn't even need the rest of my money as long as they busted the guy or kept him from ripping other people off again...

[Intrepid Homoludens]

And that seller has a positive feedback score of 82%? And s/he got away with all that for this long without being punished?


Oncesie, follow-up, please?

I think those f**** should have their fingers cut off so they can never use a keyboard again. Oh, and their pictures should be taken and posted all over eBay with a caption saying their fingers were cut off because they screwed people over.

[squarejawhero]

Followed the track record, looks like it was someone who was trusted over a long while that suddenly had a "bright idea" or got into financial difficulties. Whatever, looking at some of the stuff and the blog (alischersucks.blogspot.com) makes me think they'll track him down.

Great stuff, Once.

[Once A Villain]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Oncesie, follow-up, please?

Well, let's see. This happened in 2001 I believe (or it may have been early 2002). About a year later I got a call from the police, specifically a certain guy whose name I forget, but he had been the one I had given all the details to the year before. Anyway, this call pissed me off but by then I had gotten over it... Basically (and this sounds absurd to me), they said that they were still working on putting the guy in jail, but with crimes of that nature they get so many complaints that the overall amount of money being stolen has to be above a certain minimum limit! They said with this guy what they were doing is adding up all of his individual crimes, and when the amount got to the point where it was big enough to MATTER apparently, then they'd be able to get him. He said they were "close".

Frankly, I don't understand that reasoning at all. The guy kept telling me that I just needed to have patience, and he explained that they get complaints for over $100,000 stolen through fraud like this. He specifically told me that my loss alone wasn't great enough to be an issue. So I'm thinking...I guess only super rich people are worth helping... As it turns out, this criminal had only recently even bothered to hide his identity! On Ebay prior to my experience with him, the eventual winning bidder had asked him to send a photocopy of his driver's license. And he did! Not a fake one or anything. It was his real name, address, everything... And he just took the money and that's it. It was that easy. The man who lost money complained and he got told the same thing... "You've got a minor loss, and only when added to others will we be able to do anything." They know this guy, they know what he does, but as long as his combined theft remains below $50,000 or whatever...he's in no danger of being caught.

I guess this is how things are done in New York.

Anyway, I moved to a different house several months after that phone call, and I couldn't care less anymore about the whole thing. What the guy said on the phone made me sick. I'd rather not deal with them anymore.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

There's always small claims court. Didn't you report him to eBay?

[Once A Villain]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

There's always small claims court. Didn't you report him to eBay?

Tried. Something about him being in New York though. Internet crimes weren't exactly in their infancy, but in 2001 they were still a relatively new thing. This guy was in New York, I was in Texas. And it was all done on the internet. I talked to plenty of people and I can't remember their bullshit excuses now, but there was nothing that could be done really.

I did report him to Ebay but it didn't matter. His account was fairly new, he made them and cheated people early on, then just moved on to a new one. Plus, Ebay only covers a certain loss and it's a pathetically low amount.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

BTW, I never shop on eBay.

[Once A Villain]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

BTW, I never shop on eBay.

You know, honestly, I've had great experiences on Ebay. That's the only bad one. Well, there was another bad one but there was no loss of money involved, just a seller who decided he didn't want to honor my winning bid anymore since the exchange rate changed on him. Anyway, I blame myself for the time I got ripped off. Seriously. A lot of times when people lose a few thousand dollars you would see them acting like nothing but a victim. In truth though, I was too blame as well.

I saw something I REALLY wanted, and it was described so thoroughly and accurately that I believed the guy was sincere. He even had a story about how there were only a few hours of use on this camera since he bought it, abruptly moved, and it had remained in storage in Florida. But there were two sure hints that this was crap, and I knew it was suspicious even before I sent the money. For one thing he had zero feedback (I would never buy from a zero feedback seller again, needless to say), and also he had some excuse for why he didn't accept escrow.

I went over this in my head for days, asked the advice of my family and friends, etc. I emailed the seller, he seemed like a great guy over emails. I KNEW it wasn't ideal (ideally he'd have a lot of positive feedback), so I was never the "victim caught by complete surprise". I was always somewhat suspicious of this guy. In the end, my greed for a great deal on an item I really, really wanted overwhelmed my reason. So yes, this was my fault as well, and I've matured from it.

Two and a half years ago though I got an exceptional deal on my projector from a seller in Japan with splendid feedback on Ebay. I saved $4,000 compared to what it would have cost me in the states. So...in a way, that makes up for my earlier loss.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Once A Villain

You know, honestly, I've had great experiences on Ebay. That's the only bad one.....

But it's a damn expensive 'bad one'.

My own point is that I don't have $2,500 to risk, and even if I did have that kind of money I can't risk it on an individual I've never met before in my life without some kind of solid guarantee that I'll be getting what I would be paying for. The risk is proportionate to the amount of money involved. I want insurance. I would NEVER put that much money on the line for ANYTHING online without seeing it and sampling it in person first. I was already nervous to start when I ordered my laptop from hp.com, but that is at least a legitimate, reputable business, not an individual I've never met before who could simply change his mind on a whim or some other reason with terrible consequence unto me.

Let's just say I seriously cannot financially afford to take that gamble.

[Tanukitsune]

I've never been really scammed, but I once bid on a game, and won, which ended up being a pirated game, but refused to pay when I knew it was illegal...

I reported him and that's was the end of it....

But I wonder why did they take so long to close his account?

[nikoniko]

Originally Posted by Once A Villain

They know this guy, they know what he does, but as long as his combined theft remains below $50,000 or whatever...he's in no danger of being caught.

That's ridiculous on the part of the New York police. My friend from Maryland got ripped off for a little more than $500, called the police and the FBI in Florida where the fraudulent seller was located, and the guy was forced to appear in court facing a felony wire fraud charge, despite having only defrauded one person. My friend didn't have to do anything from that point on, as the state of Florida was handling it. The guy showed up at court with the money, which was then mailed to my friend, so they didn't give the guy jailtime, but he did get probation and a promise that if he ever came up on a fraud charge again he'd get the full 15 year sentence. I doubt that he'd get it that bad, but hopefully it was enough to scare him straight.

Maybe it helped that the FBI was called too. Although they pass off most of those smaller investigations to local police, perhaps the police take a case more seriously when the Feds are bugging them about it.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

It's like you would have to consult legalities in the state where the seller is based. And even then that's never a guarantee that if they rip you off the state won't go after them. They could easily high tail it out to another state and set up shop again. It's complicated.

[stepurhan]

Love the two neutrals on page 3 of the buyer feedback.

This is why I only use eBay for relatively low-priced items. Like Trep I have got £1,000s to risk (OK, not quite like Trep. I haven't got pounds and he hasn't got dollars ) and I'll always give recent feedback a quick look. Like SJH said you can see that their early eBay career was good which is how they got such a reasonable feedback rating in the first place. Also they don't appear to have screwed over people they were buying from (netting 88 feedback that way)

Weird about that minimum limit on pressing criminal charges though. I wonder what the situation is over here in the UK.

[squarejawhero]

Trep, I've had two bad experiences on ebay, of which didn't cost me anything. One was a buyer who refused to pay for some bullshit reason, another was a woman who thought she could send me pirated software and accused me of sexism when I reported her. That's in over 100 transactions.

I've had some great things happen too, like being unable to send a Schizm DVD package due to the British Post Office's ineptitude only for the buyer to come around, sit down and have a cup of tea and talk adventure games with me. I've trekked across London to pick up my surround sound headphones only to be invited into the garden for a beer in the summer. By chance I bought my Cintiq monitor from a guy in Los Angeles, who came over to the GDC in San Fran at the same time I took my holiday there. After coffee on Haight, he invited me to his friends place who'd designed it himself out of an old warehouse and we sat on the roof drinking green tea and looking out across the city panorama.

Ebay can be a brilliant experience.

[Kolzig]

I've had only one bad experience in eBay and that is one of my latest bids, I won WarioWare Touched in November, I paid for it through Paypal, but I still haven't received the game, the person who was selling it is very trusted seller from Canada who has over 600 feedbacks and positive feedback 99.4%.

He did sent me an email in November and he told me that he had sent the item, but it has never arrived here, it's very possible that some post office has just lost it somewhere. I've been in contact with him couple of times during these past few months about the item.

I did receive quite many packages during november and december so it might be that the local post office has misplaced the my package.

[Tanukitsune]

I've looked into this a bit more and... geez, some people should be ashamed for falling for this...

I mean, the first ones who got scammed, couldn't see the negative feedback, becuase I assume he was legit until then, but after that they are ALL bad feedback...

The iPod must be very alluring, since people with a big bidding history and therefore experience, shouldn¡t fall for something like this...

Checking the feedback is always important, you don't have to know that a seller has bad feedback, but also WHY!

I once saw someone who got negative feedback because the buyer didn't like how the package smelled of tabacco!

Sometimes I feel like giving bad feedback to people who buy stuff from on C.O.D. and they refuse to pay for it, so I simply refuse to send anything C.O.D. anymore...

[Jeysie]

I'm going to echo that you shouldn't be turned off from eBay, Trep.

I do personally prefer to buy things from offline stores whenever possible, and I'd never spend more than a small amount of money on an eBay auction... much like gambling, you shouldn't spend more money than you could soak up losing. I think the most I've ever spent on eBay is around $60, and I usually limit myself to only spending around $20 on an auction.

On the other hand, eBay is fabulous for buying out-of-print items, and usually if you're careful to read both the auction description and the details of all the seller's feedback it shouldn't be a major issue. I've only gotten scammed once myself, and, much like the trend seems to be among these stories, it was when I took a chance on a seller with zero feedback. (I was only out $17 on the matter myself, though.)

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Tanukitsune]

Yeah, Ebay is the only place to buy stuff that hasn't been for sale for ages, I wouldn't have my old adventures game collection if it weren't for Ebay!