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Old 09-10-2008, 02:06 PM   #31381
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What sort of gun might we be talking about?
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Old 09-10-2008, 02:07 PM   #31382
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The kind that you keep in your pocket when you're happy to see me.
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Old 09-10-2008, 02:22 PM   #31383
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Ah, an M1911 .45 ACP, then. Good choice, Robby.
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Old 09-10-2008, 02:32 PM   #31384
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Wilfred shot him through the head,
and he's very, very dead,
and it matters very little whether stone or lump of lead;
It is very, very certain that he's very, very dead!
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Old 09-10-2008, 02:41 PM   #31385
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Good nursery rhyme, that.
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Old 09-10-2008, 06:49 PM   #31386
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Spoiler:
  • Indeed
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Old 09-11-2008, 02:40 AM   #31387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giligan View Post
Good nursery rhyme, that.
Nursery rhyme?

NURSERY RHYME?!

I quote the genius that is Mr WS Gilbert - a Gilbert and Sullivan operetta, no less - and you call it a NURSERY RHYME???


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Old 09-11-2008, 04:22 AM   #31388
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No, he does. Not me.
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Old 09-11-2008, 05:48 AM   #31389
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Now, what a surprise there's a discussion about hip-hop when I'm away. I just have to say my views even though the discussion is already over

Now first of all, I'm the first to admit that like 70% of rap is quite rubbish. However, in my opinion rap is also very possibly the most promising and musically... open genre of popular music there is. It still evolves (of course not always in a better direction) and it has the best chances to do that too. I listen to music channels (can't say MTV nowadays, 'cause it's a fake-reality tv channel now) and all I hear is repetitiveness. Of course, no one should base any opinions of music on what one hears in radio or TV. Rock (and the likes), the "harder" it gets, is more and more just pounding (random?) chords especially on the guitar that just creates a blur where there's nothing there anymore except a pounding beat.

First of all, in hip-hop you can recognize the instruments used. That's part of why I think hip-hop is or at least can be one of the most musical genres there is (again, of popular music, nobody's counting classical or jazz or anything here, those are obviously musical and excellent genres of music). Sure, there's stuff like crunk but that's a part of commercialism (which I'll talk about later). Rap (that's easier to write than hip-hop) can do almost anything since it has very few boundaries. It's all about rhytm. And the background is a very important part of it, unlike in for example rock (which I think is mainly about the lyrics and singing). That's also why hip-hop can combine with almost any genres.
At this point let me give a couple of examples (this has turned into a lecture, but that's what university does to you):
The Rapsody Ft. Warren G. & Sissel - Prince Igor
Guru - Loungin (Jazzmatazz)
Timbaland feat. The Hives: Throw it on Me
(Edit: Snoop Dogg - My Medicine Of course it's arguable if this is mor country than hip-hop)

Now, I'm not saying rap isn't repetitive. All genres of popular music are. I can't remember one song that isn't repetitive. There's (almost) always the chorus, the middle part (that's quite often (especially in stuff like pop) the redundant part, just so that there is a reason for the chorus) and (possibly) the bridge. And the background is composed of loops: the drum/beat loop, the instrumental loops and hooks and whatever etc. I think that hip-hop, being a very rhytmical genre of music can use the most for its advantage.
Snoop Dogg - Think About It Just wanted to add that as it has no chorus whatsoever.
Nas - One Mic (in my opinion definitely not repetitive)
Dr. Dre feat. Snoop Dogg - Still D.R.E.
Wyclef Jean - Apocalypse (needed to include that somewhere)

The problem with hip-hop is of course commercialism. Once things get commercial, they lose depth. And of course now there's crunk which is just a low beat and a random synthetisizer line. (Edit: Though not even all of crunk is totally bad, when done right. Though about 98% of the time it's not done right. People like the Ying-Yang Twins and Lil' Jon at least have humour in what they do)

But when Squinky said
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squinky View Post
Arguably, it's no worse than mainstream culture in general, but that's still not an excuse.
I don't think it's a valid excuse the other way either. Hip-hop is that because of the culture in general. That's what you get from commercialism. They fulfill their dreams when they get popular, people want to see that, that makes others popular and so on. It's a cycle. Of course not everything that's commercial is bad, not at all. (Edit): OK, so you already settled this.

And it's not like rap is the only genre that has all the women and sex and money and that. But from all of what I've heard, rap actually has the most to say about the most important issues. Sure, other genres have meaningful stuff, but rap is a lot more centered really tough issues and the biggest problems (and actually stating their opinions). And it's of course also extremely self-critical.
Immortal Technique - Dance with the Devil (I have to say though, the lyrics are rather oppressive
Lupe Fiasco - Little Weapon

About the gangsta part, well, the people who "started the gangsta s***" as they (well, at least Dr. Dre) say, really did know what they were talking about. Rap evolved in the ghettos, and that's still where a lot of the rappers come from. Sure, many just ride the bandwagon when they see it's what sells, but many do speak of experience.

Umm... Now I've been writing this for a long time (time I was supposed to be reading about family law), and I have to say I have no idea what I've written so far... I'll take a good read and then edit it.

I just wanted to say, instead of criticizing rap on what you mainly hear on the usual channels, listen to the best artists like The Roots, Talib Kweli, Wyclef Jean, Wu-Tang Clan, Lauryn Hill (and let's say Pras here too to complete The Fugees), Mos Def, Common, Beastie Boys... (I tried to include artists that are not underground but not among the most played at least here, so that there's stuff that isn't obvious to a non-fan, but that has proven to be good enough to give a good scale of things).

Hmm... I should've mentioned Beastie Boys there somewhere. Oh well, for another kind of a rap lecture then. I can't spend any more time on this.

(Edit): Oh, and please do listen to some of the examples (at least samples ) to have a clue of what I'm talking about. Even if you don't read the text (then again, will you be reading this either? )

(Edit X-Y): Of course as with all things, you shouldn't judge rap by it's worst but by it's best (well, at least generally you shouldn't do that with anything).

(Edit X-Y+1): Just had to add another very musical song, and artist (one of the best MCs, though not remembered quite as much as she deserves)
Lauryn Hill - To Zion

Last edited by UPtimist; 09-11-2008 at 07:39 AM.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:05 AM   #31390
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That's well-put, UPtimist. I'd have to agree with all of that.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:13 AM   #31391
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Why thank you.

See, I've had time to practice arguing for hip-hop
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:34 AM   #31392
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*returns to listening to Finzi in a snobbish, elitist kind of way*
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:45 AM   #31393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UPtimist View Post
...big list of stuff about hiphop...
This is my favourite hiphop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAIOzM7SsMo
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:51 AM   #31394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLacey View Post
*returns to listening to Finzi in a snobbish, elitist kind of way*
*Returns to listen to Ottmar Liebert in a self-assertive, smuggish kind of way*

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSH View Post
"...big list of stuff about hiphop..."
This is my favourite hiphop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAIOzM7SsMo
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Old 09-11-2008, 07:30 AM   #31395
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DIE, Thread™!
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Old 09-11-2008, 09:24 AM   #31396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UPtimist View Post
Now, what a surprise there's a discussion about hip-hop when I'm away. I just have to say my views even though the discussion is already over

Now first of all, I'm the first to admit that like 70% of rap is quite rubbish. However, in my opinion rap is also very possibly the most promising and musically... open genre of popular music there is. It still evolves (of course not always in a better direction) and it has the best chances to do that too. I listen to music channels (can't say MTV nowadays, 'cause it's a fake-reality tv channel now) and all I hear is repetitiveness. Of course, no one should base any opinions of music on what one hears in radio or TV. Rock (and the likes), the "harder" it gets, is more and more just pounding (random?) chords especially on the guitar that just creates a blur where there's nothing there anymore except a pounding beat.

First of all, in hip-hop you can recognize the instruments used. That's part of why I think hip-hop is or at least can be one of the most musical genres there is (again, of popular music, nobody's counting classical or jazz or anything here, those are obviously musical and excellent genres of music). Sure, there's stuff like crunk but that's a part of commercialism (which I'll talk about later). Rap (that's easier to write than hip-hop) can do almost anything since it has very few boundaries. It's all about rhytm. And the background is a very important part of it, unlike in for example rock (which I think is mainly about the lyrics and singing). That's also why hip-hop can combine with almost any genres.
At this point let me give a couple of examples (this has turned into a lecture, but that's what university does to you):
The Rapsody Ft. Warren G. & Sissel - Prince Igor
Guru - Loungin (Jazzmatazz)
Timbaland feat. The Hives: Throw it on Me
(Edit: Snoop Dogg - My Medicine Of course it's arguable if this is mor country than hip-hop)

Now, I'm not saying rap isn't repetitive. All genres of popular music are. I can't remember one song that isn't repetitive. There's (almost) always the chorus, the middle part (that's quite often (especially in stuff like pop) the redundant part, just so that there is a reason for the chorus) and (possibly) the bridge. And the background is composed of loops: the drum/beat loop, the instrumental loops and hooks and whatever etc. I think that hip-hop, being a very rhytmical genre of music can use the most for its advantage.
Snoop Dogg - Think About It Just wanted to add that as it has no chorus whatsoever.
Nas - One Mic (in my opinion definitely not repetitive)
Dr. Dre feat. Snoop Dogg - Still D.R.E.
Wyclef Jean - Apocalypse (needed to include that somewhere)

The problem with hip-hop is of course commercialism. Once things get commercial, they lose depth. And of course now there's crunk which is just a low beat and a random synthetisizer line. (Edit: Though not even all of crunk is totally bad, when done right. Though about 98% of the time it's not done right. People like the Ying-Yang Twins and Lil' Jon at least have humour in what they do)

But when Squinky saidI don't think it's a valid excuse the other way either. Hip-hop is that because of the culture in general. That's what you get from commercialism. They fulfill their dreams when they get popular, people want to see that, that makes others popular and so on. It's a cycle. Of course not everything that's commercial is bad, not at all. (Edit): OK, so you already settled this.

And it's not like rap is the only genre that has all the women and sex and money and that. But from all of what I've heard, rap actually has the most to say about the most important issues. Sure, other genres have meaningful stuff, but rap is a lot more centered really tough issues and the biggest problems (and actually stating their opinions). And it's of course also extremely self-critical.
Immortal Technique - Dance with the Devil (I have to say though, the lyrics are rather oppressive
Lupe Fiasco - Little Weapon

About the gangsta part, well, the people who "started the gangsta s***" as they (well, at least Dr. Dre) say, really did know what they were talking about. Rap evolved in the ghettos, and that's still where a lot of the rappers come from. Sure, many just ride the bandwagon when they see it's what sells, but many do speak of experience.

Umm... Now I've been writing this for a long time (time I was supposed to be reading about family law), and I have to say I have no idea what I've written so far... I'll take a good read and then edit it.

I just wanted to say, instead of criticizing rap on what you mainly hear on the usual channels, listen to the best artists like The Roots, Talib Kweli, Wyclef Jean, Wu-Tang Clan, Lauryn Hill (and let's say Pras here too to complete The Fugees), Mos Def, Common, Beastie Boys... (I tried to include artists that are not underground but not among the most played at least here, so that there's stuff that isn't obvious to a non-fan, but that has proven to be good enough to give a good scale of things).

Hmm... I should've mentioned Beastie Boys there somewhere. Oh well, for another kind of a rap lecture then. I can't spend any more time on this.

(Edit): Oh, and please do listen to some of the examples (at least samples ) to have a clue of what I'm talking about. Even if you don't read the text (then again, will you be reading this either? )

(Edit X-Y): Of course as with all things, you shouldn't judge rap by it's worst but by it's best (well, at least generally you shouldn't do that with anything).

(Edit X-Y+1): Just had to add another very musical song, and artist (one of the best MCs, though not remembered quite as much as she deserves)
Lauryn Hill - To Zion


The future of Rap music


...kidding.


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Old 09-11-2008, 09:31 AM   #31397
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If only...
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Old 09-11-2008, 09:37 AM   #31398
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I hate people who post YouTube links that are useless to me.
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Old 09-11-2008, 09:39 AM   #31399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giligan View Post
I hate people who post YouTube links that are useless to me.

How are they useless to you?


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- "esc(x) cot(x) dx = -csc(x)!" Dennis added, and the wizard's robe caught on fire. "Gosh," Dennis said, "and some people say higher math isn't relevant."

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Old 09-11-2008, 09:50 AM   #31400
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Quote:
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...nobody's counting classical or jazz or anything here, those are obviously musical and excellent genres of music...
I was. I'm a total music snob -- classically trained since I was a wee four-year-old. In fact, classical and jazz are really the only genres of music I take seriously. The rest is just tongue-in-cheek fun. I'm known to unabashedly enjoy cheesy but catchy pop songs from the 70's-90's, after all. Jatsie would be able to relate, I'm sure.
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