[Erkki]

I was just thinking about how big a deal AGS (and the other, less popular freeware adventure engines) really is. I don't know how many games exactly are made with them, but it probably must be nearing a thousand soon? Not all of them are good, but many are.

No other genre that I know of probably has that strong a community of amateur developers? (Except maybe RPGs, I don't really know)
What I think has been AGS's success is that it allows to easily create a very specific type of game (and also is flexible if you need to make changes to the standard point&click formula). It's probably easier to use than the tools that were used by LucasArts / Sierra.

But what is the future? Will AGS (or a similar engine) be king for years to come or will there be new developements? Will there be something beyond the sprite-based point & click.
And what will happen in other genres, where there aren't any standard formulas like the point & click adventure that has been around for more than a decade. So far there have been a lot of mods and total conversions for different 3D shooters but making even a totally new game as a mod (what I'm doing actually at the moment -- an adventure as a Deus Ex mod) means limiting your players to those who have the game, and can be bothered to install it. The game won't be completely 'independent'.

I personally hope that a very mature and flexible, freeware 3D engine will be developed in the near future (maybe Ogre?) and that a lot of different people will create different tools that work with the engine, eventually making it possible to create almost any game almost as easily as it is to create adventure games with AGS. To arrive at a situation where that becomes possible would require a lot of coordinated effort though, or it may happen accidentally...

[Kingzjester]

I think it just needs a lot if computing power.... AGS has a lot of room to be redundant and not care. That is fairly close to happening with real-time 3d. You just need an insane programmer who is willing to make an engine for the fun of it.

[Zygomaticus]

Originally Posted by Kingzjester

I think it just needs a lot if computing power.... AGS has a lot of room to be redundant and not care. That is fairly close to happening with real-time 3d. You just need an insane programmer who is willing to make an engine for the fun of it.

Just you wait 4 years...

[Erkki]

I think there's still a lot of room for improvement for AGS-like engines as well. A more object-oriented approach would be better, and there could still be more (user friendly) flexibility. AGS is a bit too much like BASIC at times (the message numbers and all that, reminds of the 'goto' command that most programmers hate).

[Erwin_Br]

Hmm, the adventure genre isn't the only amateur game developing community. Look at 3D engines as DarkBasic and 3D Game Studio. Both have quite a large community of 3D game creating people behind them. Not to mention ClickTeam's Multi Media Fusion (which you can use to create all sorts of 2D games), who has a community even larger than AGS, Sludge and Agast together.

The desire to create games is a pretty heavy one, so it seems.

--Erwin

[Kingzjester]

Oh, yeah. Haven't touched Basic in ten years... I thought that looked familiar. The AGS scripting language is practically C.

[Erkki]

Hmm... I guess you're right, Erwin. I didn't really think of those things when posting. But they all seem to cost money, I mostly was talking about completely free tools, immediately available to anyone.

I admit I have no idea how easy it is to use those things as I've never tried them.

[RLacey]

Originally Posted by Erkki

I admit I have no idea how easy it is to use those things as I've never tried them.

Well, products such as DarkBasic and Blitz Basic 3D require coding, while K&P/TGF/Multimedia Fusion don't - in the latter you set up events in the form of 'When X collides with Y destroy X'. So, it depends on how much time you have on your hands. Of course, K&P/TGF/MMF are 2D only...

Try Game Maker for something quite similar - in fact, this is more powerful than K&P/TGF/MMF, but is also more complicated...

[Ninja Dodo]

Course, the more coding the more control. If you want to create something advanced you can't really get around it.

[RLacey]

Originally Posted by Ninja Dodo

Course, the more coding the more control. If you want to create something advanced you can't really get around it.

Very true - it all comes down to what you are setting out to achieve. To plug some of my own games for a minute (apologies in advance)...

With Quong I set out to achieve 4-player Pong. Not particularly clever, and far easier to use a special program then try to code it myself.

With my adventure game I will be using AGS - this isn't a difficult decision for me, as the amount of work required to create an engine even approaching the technical level of AGS isn't worth my time.

For a secret, under-wraps game, a friend of mine wants to do fully coded 3D. He knows how to program, he has time, and he wants to do something special.

LaceyWare.com - Something For Everyone [TM]

[Wormsie]

Originally Posted by Erkki

I personally hope that a very mature and flexible, freeware 3D engine will be developed in the near future (maybe Ogre?) and that a lot of different people will create different tools that work with the engine, eventually making it possible to create almost any game almost as easily as it is to create adventure games with AGS. To arrive at a situation where that becomes possible would require a lot of coordinated effort though, or it may happen accidentally...

WME is going to get 3D support eventually: in the form of Grim Fandango, with static backgrounds and real-time 3D image.

But how have books developoed in the, say, past 20 years? Or movies? Not that much...

[Marek]

There's already plenty of engines available. If you want a more serious 3D engine, for example, you can go for Torque. But, really, I've seen some really nice stuff being done with Blitz 3D and such. The engines will keep improving, and so will the amateur developers. There's a sort of "shareware era" revival going on.

The real question about the future of amateur (adventure) games will be distribution. How many people will get to see and play them? In the case of commercial games, how many people are actually going to buy them? We need more places where these games can be easily found. The first to create a really good site for that will be sitting on a small goldmine, in my opinion. (I'm not talking about something like The Crow's Nest, which is small and community-focused, but really a Shockwave.com type affair for downloadable amateur games.)

[Kingzjester]

Idle Thumbs hint hint

If you don't understand this, it is not your fault.

[James]

ForeverDream Studios.

[Wormsie]

Originally Posted by Kingzjester

Idle Thumbs hint hint

If you don't understand this, it is not your fault.

It's always my fault.

[Marek]

Originally Posted by Kingzjester

Idle Thumbs hint hint

Heh, perhaps. That's not a terrible idea.

Now hush...

[m0ds]

Independent games are going from strength to strength. There's no way of hiding how big such communites like AGS have grown. There's no going back

[Kingzjester]

Originally Posted by Marek

Heh, perhaps. That's not a terrible idea.

Now hush...

Holy shit, you've called my idea 'NOT TERRIBLE'. Should I feel flattered? Should I jump around joyfully?!

Consider yourself flicked off.

That is not a particlularly bad inslut since my middle fingers are more or less locked in two perpetual phalic depictions at all times.

[Deshrill]

Marek, a better way to phrase "not terrible" might be "shows promise, but needs some work". However, this point is moot because I don't know how you really felt about kingzjester's idea.

[Erkki]

What is Idle Thumbs anyway?