So, are you prejudiced? (Free game engine popularity)
In a hypothetical scenario, we have four alternate universes.
Each one deals with a single amateur adventure game. The screenshots and story look good. They look great. But it's not in *your* engine, so you won't bother with it. Or will you? I pose this question, of whether or not amateur adventure game lose publicity, because the developer chose an unpopular engine. Suppose we have one adventure game. In one universe, it's in AGS. You'll download it, because you like to keep up on all cool games in that engine. In the second Universe, it's in Wintermute, and you'll play it, because that's almost as good as AGS. In the third Universe, it's in LASSIE, so you'll avoid it. In our final Universe, the game is in Game Maker, and you aren't familiar with Game Maker, so you pass it up, even though it looks cool. Yes? |
As a user of several unpopular game engines, I find that so long as you make an attempt to advertise it on a wide variety of forums, if your game is any good, then people will play it and help spread the word in the form of reviews, etc. So yeah, I picked column 5.
That said, those damn AGS people can get pretty cliquey at times... |
I mainly play SCUMM games.:P
But seriously, I almost never even stop to consider what engine a professional game is made in, so why should I care more about this with amateur adventures? And how can not knowing the engine be a turnoff when so many popular (professional) adventure games have an engine of their own? Maybe it's just because I'm not a designer myself, but this question seems pretty absurd. |
I agree with what King Bluetooth above me said, but I must admit, I do have some preconceived ideas about some engines... well, maybe one... While there are many good games created with AGS, I always assume that an AGS game will have really amateurish low res graphics... using a resolution that should have been retired more than 15 years ago. I do realise that this is not always true though.
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AGS is mailnly aimed at retro-adventuring, I think. At least, that's what seems to be its reputation. Higher resolution is possible, but not above 640x480, I think. I'm not really sure. But that's fine. Lots of people prefer the low res out of nostalgia, and honestly some of those games have been awesome. Just look at some of the Sierra game remakes (KQ1, KQ3).
I'll bet that there are engines out there that are more suited and more capable of doing modern adventure games, so the choice of engine does mean something. The next question is: how much does the average player know about the different engines, really? |
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This is quite a problem, too, as AGS inarguably is huge, and has a monopoly on all amateur adventure game creation. Quote:
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Look, I see a lot of anti-AGS prejudice in this thread, and I don't really get it. If you're a developer, use whatever engine is best for you. And if you're a player, the only thing that really matters is the quality of the game. Bias is only going to blind you to what's out there. Of course, there are differences between the "typical" games made with each engine. AGS games are more likely to be in VGA resolution. SLUDGE games tend to have kooky hand-drawn graphics. Visionaire games are usually in German. Many Wintermute games have a polished, CGI look. Flash games often have poor user interfaces (probably because they can't use the right mouse button), and so on. There are great games for all engines and there are crappy games for all of them. Even if your personal taste isn't for the typical example of a particular engine, there are still plenty of exceptions (particularly for AGS, just because of the sheer number of games). Just look at the Underground News item I posted yesterday. They were all made with the same engine, but are radically different both in graphics, gameplay and style. Quote:
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AGS is a community as well as a game engine, with annual week-long meetups and other social aspects. So yeah, it's cliquey, because among other things it's a group of friends. And the AGS Forums are of course mainly focused on AGS. But as indie adventure game fans, the AGS crowd is perfectly happy to play non-AGS games, and I think that most of them are genuinely happy that there are alternatives to AGS. Quote:
The only "problem" I see is that players may never hear about non-AGS games. That's really the fault of the creators, though, for not announcing their games in places where players will see it. Flash games, especially, rarely get announced on adventure community sites (probably because many Flash developers aren't themselves part of the community). But when Pinhead Games made the Nick Bounty titles, they did a great job spreading the word about them (including on the AGS Forums), and you can see that they've become really popular. If your game is good and you make sure people know about it, it doesn't matter what software you used to create it. Quote:
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You need to distinguish between amateurish art and low resolution, though. In fact, crappy art in high resolution is a typical newbie error. What I think it more interesting is to look at the higher end of the curve. There are quite a few Underground and indie games in low-resolution 320x200 (or 320x240) whose graphics are essentially professional quality. That is to say, they look as good (or nearly as good) as commercial games of the same resolution. (Like The Infinity String, Knightsquire, the Apprentice series, Cedric and the Revolution, The Blackwell Legacy, No-Action Jackson, etc.) On the other hand, how many high resolution amateur adventures could be mistaken for a commercial, professional title? Not many. (Some that are under development, though, like Rise of the Hidden Sun and Kaptain Brawe. The higher resolution graphics are probably one of the reasons they're still under development.) Quote:
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While it's nice for artists to stretch their abilities, the results are usually better when they realize their limitations, and work within those restrictions. If you can't pull of a CMI-style background, it's probably best to go with something simpler. There's nothing wrong with that. |
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Myself, I use Point and Click Development Kit. I like it because it is drop and drag, easy to use and the script is easy for me. I would sooner poke myself in the eye with a fork than script, I hate it with a passion. It's the part of game making that turns me off the most. I've had friends not talk to me anymore and treat me like I didn't even exist because I use P&C DK. I have people who won't even come on my site because I display their banner.
Does it really make that much of a difference what engine the game is made in. I love freeware indie games because I know all the hard work, frustration and effort that goes into making these games. I never trash anyone's work. I think freeware indie developers are the best, my hats off to every one of them. I would play any free game, I find the best in them because you can see that the work comes right from the heart. We should praise these people who take the time to give us something for nothing. All they ask in return is that we enjoy their work. Sorry for sounding too preachy, that's just how I feel. |
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Why I came to this conclusion, is very simple. I have seen a lot of polished, great games in other engines that never achieved large popularity. It could be because the develper didn't adventise the game enough, yes. Still, for example, take a look at this site. There are by far, more adventure games in AGS written about than games of other engines. I realize that the writers will deny this. Call it anti-AGS prejudice if you wish, but as a whole, games have an increased chance of fame and popularity if they're made with AGS. On a site, like, say Adventure Developers, where a good deal of staff here hang out, you will see a good many non-AGS games being promoted, but they just don't seem to reach popularity levels of AGS games. Take, for example, two adventure games that came out in 2003. Out of Order and The Apprentice. Both were supposed to be excellent games. One was SLUDGE, one was AGS. Whereas, say, Out of Order isn't heard of anymore, you can't throw a dead cat without hitting an article praising The Apprentice, if you'll excuse the expression. I realise I'll invoke a lot of comments about how The Apprentice was much better than Out of Order and whatnot, and therefor worthy of more mention, but my point stands. Quote:
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I mostly play AGS games, to be honest, but I don't really know why I haven't checked out more Wintermute stuff, etc.
Most other engines don't get the same exposure unfortunately, or you need to download a seperate program to play them (I'm too lazy). |
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I think I can sum up why you see more of AGS games than games using any other system in three words.
Big Blue Cup. AGS has a website dedicated to promoting games made by people using the engine. They have regular competitions and other ideas to promote game creators. To put it bluntly, more people play AGS games because they know they can go to one place and hear about a load of new ones regularly (regardless of the quality) Correct me if I'm wrong here but I've had a look and I can't find equivalent sites for either Wintermute or SLUDGE. I've also visited the Adventure Maker website today (thanks to a thread in this very forum) None of them have the promotional power of the Big Blue Cup website. I'm speaking as someone whose name appears in the credits of one of the Wintermute engine's success stories. and who is a big fan of another one. I think, for the most part the prejudice you perceive is no more than people not wanting to look too hard for new free games and knowing they can find at least mediocre new games in one place. Oh, and Out of Order is waaaay better than The Apprentice. The uninitiated can get it here.(Side point. A lot of sites came up in a search for this link. Maybe it isn't as obscure as you think it is) |
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AGS has been around for ages, it has a reputation of being easy to use, it has retro appeal and it has a huge active community. I think that's why it's so popular. Personally I'm quite suspicious of AGS and haven't used it much, and besides, I prefer to code things by hand anyway... On the other hand I haven't released any games either, although with The Curves of Danger we were kinda close. :D
I think games made in some other engine actually have slightly better chances at getting recognition, because the huge amount of AGS games released - if you release an AGS game it easily becomes just Yet Another AGS game. |
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Well, 19/22 votes for any game, any engine, is certainly good. Before we got into this lengthy exchange on the widespread use of AGS, we were discussing whether or not a player would be more inclined to play games on *his (or her) engine*. I'm glad to see overwhelming support for all games, despite being slightly disturbed at the monopoly of AGS as opposed to other adventure game making engines. Hey! Someone voted for option 5! Wtf? :P |
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AGS isn't hurting the hobbyist adventure scene by being used by so many people. Rather, its ease of use is leading to it being used by so many people which leads to a stronger, more productive hobbyist adventure scene. And some of those users may decide to move on to another engine if they feel that the AGS engine's technical shortfalls are holding them back. But the technical shortfalls like lower resolutions and lack of 3d support aren't an issue to most people who just want to make a game that entertains. Higher technical specs just mean a longer period of development and more work for someone who isn't getting any financial return for their time. I've got to agree with pretty much everything Brisk Nap has said in this thread and thank him for mentioning my game, Linus, which is a good example of how AGS's robust scripting language can be used to create games that are far, far from the norm. |
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