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Old 04-01-2007, 10:13 PM   #21
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Yeah, anyway, I will not run Vista because I think it's a bad OS.

I will probably move to new AmigaOS4.
Heh, you are brave. I used to love my Miggy, still have it actually... but as time went on, it was more of a hobby than anything else, and I might find myself getting AmigaOS4 for the same reason, just to mess around with. Users bitched way back when they announced they were going to recreate the OS as a runtime environment that would run on top of other operating systems, but I am actually seeing the logic of that now and wish they actually did that.

As for Vista. My advice to anyone would be to wait till the second service pack is released... right now there's too much wrong with it, including hundreds of users complaining that the simple task of moving and copying files was very slow for them. On the Microsoft support forum, a MS tech wrote to say it's slow because the operating system is actually very busy doing other stuff... blegh, sounds like bloat to me. A hotfix has been released for this problem, but no major patches.
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Old 04-02-2007, 12:51 AM   #22
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My advice to anyone would be to wait till the second service pack is released.
Sadly that isn't an option to those of us developing games. Users have Vista now, and they want the game to run now. Otherwise they simply won't get past the demo, and players/sales are lost.
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Old 04-02-2007, 01:23 AM   #23
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Sadly that isn't an option to those of us developing games. Users have Vista now, and they want the game to run now. Otherwise they simply won't get past the demo, and players/sales are lost.
That's not the least of your worries. It sucks being in indie developer in the world of Vista. If you have lots of money though, you're fine.

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=14952

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/30/vi...s-wildtangent/

http://www.informationweek.com/showA...SSfeed_TechWeb
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:02 AM   #24
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Do you test in it?
Know anyone that could test it?
Maker of your engine says it will!
You don't care?
PLEASE DONT HURT ME!!

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Old 04-02-2007, 10:51 AM   #25
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Thanks for the links!

I bet Microsoft love joystiq! Whose idea was it to choose an alleged spyware promoter as a sympathy figure? That article missed the bigger story IMO, which is that Vista undermines its own security by banning simplicity.

Warning: rant ahead!

I havea simple game, I just want to place three files into one folder, and I don't want to spend thousands of dollars feeding a game registration monopoly. But Vista creates headaches with permissions, it demands that I split the game up into little bits (engine here, data there, saved files somewhere else), and simplicity and transparency become impossible. I spent ths morning removing a copy of Norton antivirus from a machine (and putting AVG on instead). I have serious issues with software that tries to take control away from the user, tries to scare people into paying too much money, and embeds itself deeply into every corner of a machine. Yet that seems to be the only kind of software that Vista will allow.

The linked article implies that the answer to spyware and other threats is ever greater levels of complexity. No, complexity is the problem, not the solution. Encourage programs that stay in one folder and keep their tentacles out of other programs' business. Allow people to write simple code that is easily quarantined, and then security will become far easier and lss intrusive.

As I said in another thread, this is rapidly turning me into a Linux fan, but sadly most of my potential customers use Windows.

Last edited by Enter the Story; 04-02-2007 at 10:57 AM. Reason: adding the word 'alleged' - wild tangent robustly defended themselves in the linked hread
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Old 04-02-2007, 12:33 PM   #26
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We have a company that makes the OS and then we have the same company that makes and sales software that will let you make/program software for said OS from the same company.
So how do you stop others from competing with you. you make the OS so hard to program for and charge them for the signature so their software will install on the OS.
It all boils down to controlling the Computer with OS.
Hope I didn't make to many typos. lol
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Old 04-03-2007, 10:16 AM   #27
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Go one step further and Vista 64 (microsoft plans to dump Vista 32 midway through vista's life cycle) requires signed drivers.
It does, but the requirement can be turned off very easily.

I've been using Vista for a couple of weeks now, and don't have any real complaints (issues with Norton Antivirus aside). And it's okay, I didn't lose any money on it, because I won a copy from Microsoft.

From where I'm sitting the problems with Vista are overstated. That said, I'd agree that most people probably shouldn't upgrade this early.
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:00 PM   #28
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It does, but the requirement can be turned off very easily.
Kind of defeats the purpose of vista. may as well stay with XP.
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:04 PM   #29
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Mandatory signed drivers (which aren't necessary in 32-bit Vista) is the only reason to upgrade?

There are plenty of nice - if unnecessary - things about Windows Vista. I swear, some people (I don't mean anyone here particularly) are just looking to slate it.
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:18 PM   #30
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I shall see what happens with a whole load of stuff once I upgrade to Vista in what should be about a fortnight's time.
I'm curious to know of your experiences with "underground" games. Sludge games in particular, if you've tried any. That includes Out of Order, Cubert Badbone, The Game That Takes Place On A Cruise Ship, Nathan's Second Chance and my game. (If any game on that list is a game you haven't played, I recommend that you do so. They are all games I recommend without hesitation.)
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Old 04-03-2007, 06:16 PM   #31
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I'm curious about that as well.

(Oh, and thanks, Trum.)
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Old 04-04-2007, 11:05 PM   #32
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I'm curious about that as well.

(Oh, and thanks, Trum.)
I guess you will be happy to know that your game "The Game That Takes Place On A Cruise Ship" works in Vista.
I install Microsoft Virtual PC then install Vista and got it running.
I don't know if the sound works as I couldn't get my sound card to work under Vista .
But the game plays fine so would think the others Sludge games will too.
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Old 04-05-2007, 12:12 AM   #33
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Egads!

Peeps suing microsoft
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/200...ing_deception/


By the way... both TGTTPOACS and Frasse work in Linux under Wine... so
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Old 04-05-2007, 10:02 AM   #34
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I guess you will be happy to know that your game "The Game That Takes Place On A Cruise Ship" works in Vista.
I install Microsoft Virtual PC then install Vista and got it running.
I don't know if the sound works as I couldn't get my sound card to work under Vista .
But the game plays fine so would think the others Sludge games will too.
What about saved games? I don't have Vista, but everyone tells me you can only save games (or update ini fles) if the privileges and folders are set just right. I'm not the world's greatest rogrammer, so that rings scary alarm bells for me.
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Old 04-06-2007, 12:59 PM   #35
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Never again.
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Old 04-07-2007, 03:06 AM   #36
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What about saved games? I don't have Vista, but everyone tells me you can only save games (or update ini fles) if the privileges and folders are set just right. I'm not the world's greatest rogrammer, so that rings scary alarm bells for me.
Well, in Vista, applications are supposed not to store any private data in "Program Files". So if you want to be safe and play nice, you should store saved games in the user's Documents or AppData directories, not directly in the game directory. As far as I know AGS and WME support this directly, don't know about Sludge.
But, not to break compatibility with existing applications, Vista "virtualizes" any writes to Program Files and automatically redirects them to user's private directory, so I believe it should work.
That said, I tested TGTTPOACS in Vista and saving/loading seemed to work ok with my administrator account and UAC enabled.
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Old 04-09-2007, 03:43 PM   #37
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Vista "virtualizes" any writes to Program Files and automatically redirects them to user's private directory, so I believe it should work.
Woohoo! That's great news. Thanks.

Regarding where to save stuff, I guess I'm too muhc of a newbie, but I never know what to type. Sludge has a line for where to save games, but I don't know what magic formula should be typed there to make every possible configuration and flavor of Windows work perfectly every time.

My current method is to leave that field blank and cross my fingers. And if there's a chance that Vista might be involved I cross my toes too and hang a lucky rabbit's foot over the monitor while the game compiles. I think that's what they recommend on the Microsoft Knowledgebase.
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Old 04-10-2007, 06:40 AM   #38
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Sludge has a line for where to save games, but I don't know what magic formula should be typed there to make every possible configuration and flavor of Windows work perfectly every time.
That path is relative to the game data. Using something like "saves" is a good idea, but you can't get more fancy than that. Because of that, my installer puts the game data in the appdata folder (that Program Files deal was true already in XP, except not enforced when the user runs as admin, which most XP home users do). That usually works, but I know of a few instances where people had that on a different partition than where they installed the game so they ran out of disk space and got problems. For those rare cases, and Linux users playing though WinE, a zip file download is a good complement.
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Old 04-10-2007, 07:51 AM   #39
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If you look at Vista just like aesthetic OS, you can download Vista transformation pack to your computer and that will do. (30 mb)
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Old 04-10-2007, 03:33 PM   #40
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my installer puts the game data in the appdata folder (that Program Files deal was true already in XP, except not enforced... For those rare cases, and Linux users playing though WinE, a zip file download is a good complement.
Thanks for the info. I'm still a little confused (though no more than normal).
Are you suggesting two downloads of the complete game, differing only in save paths? Or something else?
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