[AFGNCAAP]

I really need to get that one off my chest. Feel free to disagree.

What is your attitude towards fanmade sequels? When I first discovered how wealthy the offer of amateur scene is (about a year ago), I was positively shocked. The fact that many of them were more than just inspired by famous commercial titles occured to me very soon, but it didn't bother me at all. I appreciated (as I still do) the commitment of people who develop ambitious projects like unofficial King's Quest IX. Or the new Indy. Or any of the three(?) Space Quests, two Zak McKrakens, Broken Sword, Grim Fandango...

Wait, a moment, did he say GRIM FANDANGO?

Nah, the last one was a mere bluff of course. There's - hopefully - no amateur-produced "Manny returns" under development. But I made it up to illustrate my point. If the trend isn't stopped soon, we will get fans' follow-ups to every single classic. (Am I exaggerating? Well, look at what I've just discovered.) I can believe in only handful of these future games being "children born from true love", if you see what I mean (aforementioned KQIX would probably fall into this category). Don't get me wrong, I find it simply beautiful that gamers' community cares about adventure genre so much it wouldn't let it die. But I'm afraid the authors of those innumerable continuations may do more harm than good. Let's face it: vast majority of amateur games are average at best (it's not an insult, it's just the same as with the professional products). What reasons do we have to believe that a guy who thinks "Man, I loved that thing about tentacles, it'd be fun to make a sequel to that" is more talented than somebody who invests time and effort into creating something original? They make both turn out to be bad designers, but the former would additionally bring disgrace to the franchise beloved by many.

It's not that I want the copyright holders to interfere. It's great they don't mind the free advertisement that such sequels give them (because, as I said before, part of them were and will be gems). But it's not fair that Jane Jensen struggles to regain rights to her own saga, and I may write random crap entitled Gabriel Knight 4 with little or no consequences.

Therefore I demand more self-criticism from the developers themselves. If (what's hardly probable) any sequel-maker reads this, please ask yourself whether you really think your baby will be a worthy successor. Whether your idea are on par with the "source" in terms of originality, depth and wit. Whether you are skilled enough at programming & art to put these ideas into reality.

There are so many fabulous projects I'm looking forward to, like Shadowplay or Erwin's Bad Timing. Often do they pay obvious homage to the past games. But they don't rip off others' ideas just because it will attract more publicity! Soon enough it'd be original not to use existent franchise!

It was supposed to be longer, but I'd cut it here and ask if I'm the only one who feels this way.

[remixor]

Meh. This stuff is never going to stop, and in all honestly I don't see why it has to. You're right that most of it is crap, but it really doesn't matter. Can anyone honestly say they consider their favorite Space Quest game to be any less fun just because some people put out a Space Quest fan game? It's really not a big deal. At least people are learning skills that may eventually enable them to make their own original games. Sure, I'd rather have an original game than a fan game, all else equal of course, but since there is no finite limit on how many amateur games can be produced, I don't think it does any harm.
As far as self-criticism goes, I think that may as well apply to all amateur games, tribute or not. I'd love to see an overal upward shift in quality of amateur adventures in general, no matter what the plots are based on. I understand the spirit of your post, but I'm not sure what specific "harm" you fear, besides an overall decline in appreciation for the original game series. To me, though, this just doesn't seem likely.

[Erkki]

I'm not exactly sure what I think of this. I've never played any of the fan-made sequels. Mmm... now wait I remember a Monkey Island sequel. And I seem to remember it was pretty fun, although with poor production values. So I guess I don't see any harm in this.
The only problem I see is that those are all probably questionable legally and there's always a threat that the copyright owners want to shut such a project down?

[eriq]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery! and there's nothing wrong at all with being inspired! As Remixor pointed out, all of these people are learning by creating their own games. Hopefully, somewhere down the line their passion will allow them to create their own original ideas.

I still have all of my old games that I created and looking back, they were ALL inspired by games like Space Quest or Loom. Everything down to the little hint books I created reeked of Sierra or LucasArts. Would I do the same thing today? no. But the skills I developed were invaluable and have allowed me to start creating my own adventure game.

It's a thriving community and I think it's great.

[RemiO]

Well, heh, I've yet to play an amateur adventure game - be it sequel to a professional game or an original game - that I would classify as remotely good, so I stopped playing them. If people like making them then that's no skin of my back. Same with fanfic, really.

[Stinger]

I totally agree with you, AFGN, especially since you don't go as far as to say "every fan sequel just sucks" but you make the point that more self-criticism is really what's necessary...and I think you're allowing that there actually could be a decent fan-sequel out there. Space Quest: The Lost Chapter is a fantastic homage to the AGI-era SQ games, and could easily be a Sierra product. But games like Broken Sword 2.5 have me very worried, especially because I don't like the idea of making your own extension to a story that is still active, and still being written by Revolution.

- Evan

[mycroft]

Hmm...I understand what you mean AFGNCAAP. When I got into fanmade sequels, I discovered that only a handful are as you call children born from true love. The rest seem to be a b*****ization of the entire concept and the gameworld. I think that they intended not to expand on the gameworld and the story, but to jibe and mock. I won't give any names here, but I felt simply disgusted after playing a few fan-made sequels. I haven't played a fan-game since, so I cannot tell of the quality of the games currently. I only approach one when it comes with some recommendation from trusted sources *hint* *hint*.

[remixor]

Originally Posted by mycroft

I won't give any names here, but I felt simply disgusted after playing a few fan-made sequels. I haven't played a fan-game since, so I cannot tell of the quality of the games currently. I only approach one when it comes with some recommendation from trusted sources *hint* *hint*.

But see, this doesn't really matter. Now you can just ignore almost all of them, and it doesn't affect you negatively at all. They're fun for some people, and it provides something to do for the developer, so even you think every single last one is shit, one of the nice things about the internet is that you can just choose not to visit whatever websites you don't want to visit. It would be pretty hard to accidently end up downloading something as obscure as a fanmade sequel to an old adventure game.

[mycroft]

Originally Posted by remixor

But see, this doesn't really matter. Now you can just ignore almost all of them, and it doesn't affect you negatively at all.

Aye, ignorance is bliss.

Originally Posted by remixor

... so even you think every single last one is shit ...

Hey now, I never said that. I didn't even imply it.

[Ringmaster Bent]

As long as the content is 100% original, I don't mind them. What I hate is seeing a "Remix" of somebody else's artwork.

[Deshrill]

Excellent point, AFGNCAAP. Before I start with my opinion on fan-made sequels, I wish to point out that I'm a college student pursuing a BFA in Computer Art with a concentration in Interactivity and Game Development. This is not to say that I am "more qualified" to discuss this issue, but I have been reading some really good books on game theory and game design. I also had to work in a group and design a game for a final for a school project, but that's a totally separate issue.

I find that adventure game fans (and I'm one of them... I wouldn't belong to this forum if I wasn't!) have a stronge sense of nostalgia towards old adventure games (i.e. the "golden age" of adventure games, etc.). Because they love the classics so much (Monkey Island, Gabriel Knight, Doom II: Hell on Earth [j/k]), fans wish to continue the stories for characters that they enjoyed and became attached to when they played the old games. I think in a way these fan-made sequels (the few that actually get completed without getting shut down with cease and desist letters, a la LucasArts) are similar to fan fiction.

A problem with both fan fiction and fan made adventure games is the whole legality issue. I have never taken a course in law, but I have read some on it and from what I understand, making a game (or writing a fan-fic) with a character (or franchise for that matter) that is copyrighted by a company (like the Monkey Island series is copyrighted to LucasArts) without permission from the company is technically illegal. However, corporations are less likely to go after a fan-made game if it is done as freeware; when you make a profit or start selling things featuring characters that are copyrighted by another company, you can (and, if word gets out, will) be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

On a more positive note, I think that when an adventure game fan gets inspired enough to take a crack at designing their own adventure game, and their idea for a game is based off an existing franchise, it's still a wonderful thing. Designing a game, whether it's a board game, video game, or computer game, is a tremendous undertaking (read the excellent Adventure Architect articles available on this site to get a feel for the process of designing a game). Unless you are making a text adventure (as I am doing right now), it is very difficult to design a game alone. There are exceptions (Space Quest: The Lost Chapter was designed, illustrated and sound engineered by Vonster, with some design assistance by Josh Mandel), but to design a graphic adventure, a team of people is usually required. This is a bit off topic, though, so let's get back to the subject of fan-made adventure games.

It all boils down to this: Given a choice of two titles, what would the average newbie adventure game designer pick as their first project: Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Past (a dark journey through the origins of the Schatenjager bloodline...) or Billy McPondersnap's Galaxy Adventure (join 23 year-old college drop-out Billy McPondersnap as he travels the galaxy in search for the 5 parts needed to create the Perfect Robo-Woman). I'd place my bets on the first idea, the Gabriel Knight prequel. Why? Because in some cases it's easy to start a story (or design a game) based on an existing franchise because much of the game world, back story, and characters have already been created. While designing a game based off an existing property arguably show a lack of creativity (why make a Leisure Suit Larry sequel when you can come up with your own ideas instead?), designing adventure games is a very hard and time-consuming thing to do, period.

I think a reason why a majority of fan-made adventure games never get finished is possibly due to a lack of organization, discipline, and time. To make an adventure game (which is filled with dialogue, rooms, characters, a unique game world, music, and sound effects) is a large undertaking, as I've been driving into the ground in the past few paragraphs. Is a 12 year old adventure game fan with loads of free time more likely to finish their adventure game than a 32 year old adventure game fan who has small bits of free time? I honestly can't say. I will say that arguably (this is based on my experience from taking an Intro to Game Design class in college last Quarter [Fall 2003]) writing a Game Design Document or a Game Screenplay will make things much easier in the long run. It's easier to change room layouts on a piece of paper than it is to reprogram, redraw, and redesign the same room layouts in Adventure Game Studio (or your adventure game design program of choice).

Another point (and probably my final point because it's around 2:30 AM EST right now and I'm getting a little bit drowsy) is the quality of fan-made games, whether they are fan-made sequels or original fan-made games. I strongly believe in the pyramid structure as it works for games: with tons of fan-made games out there, the majority (at the "bottom of the pyramid") out there are crap. Are they crappy because of bad graphics, bad sound, bad gameplay, unlogical puzzle design? All of the above? I haven't played many fan made adventure games lately because of a lack of time (your Junior year of college tends to zap away free time in large amounts due to complicated projects for classes), but I suspect it's because of a combination of the factors listed above. But, to be fair, most people's first attempt at making a game won't be good and with each game they make, they will improve bit by bit.

The one fan-made sequel I remember downloading and playing was a German sequel to the underrated Zak McKracken & The Alien Mindbenders. I was impressed with the game's graphics, but the game felt like a remake of the original with lots of similar locations. To be fair, I only played it for an hour or so, so I did not beat it: these are only initial impressions.

Actually, there's another fan-made sequel: AGD Interactive's (formerly known as Tierra) KQ1VGA remake. Made with AGS, it has wonderful graphics, new music, an optional voice pack, but the same classic gameplay as the classic KQ1 game. With 2 lead designers and a team of over a dozen people working on the game, it truly impressed me as an organized effort that took a long time to develop from start to finish. I remember downloading this KQ1VGA remake and just grinning as I was playing it; playing this VGA remake reminded me of the time when I first played the original King's Quest game back when I received the King's Quest Collection as a gift around 11 years ago.

In conclusion, fan-made sequels show a lack of creativity from their use of pre-existing characters and locations in an already existing franchise. However, when one is inspired to design a game, whether it is their own idea or an adaptation, the finished game they make is truly a wonderful thing: all the designer(s)'s work in making a game is paid off with a finished product that fans around the world can play for free (if it is freeware, obviously).

Skimming over this article, it's just a little long and more than a little rambling. I hope it's academic term paper tone doesn't bore too many of you to tears.

[remixor]

Originally Posted by mycroft

Aye, ignorance is bliss.

If only...

Hey now, I never said that. I didn't even imply it.

I know, I was merely presenting a worst possible scenario.

[Erwin_Br]

I think the Tierra titles are an exception, because they're not fan-made sequels. They're remakes. Better graphics, sound and music.

I have mixed feelings about fangames. Take the Indiana Jones and the Fountain of Youth project , for example. I'm looking very much forward to this game because of it's excellent artwork, animation and music. But sometimes I wonder if these guys aren't wasting their great talents. But then again, LucasArts abandoned the Indy adventure and replaced it with mediocre Tomb Raider clones so I'm also happy these guys are trying to recapture the greatness of "Fate of Atlantis".

I'm not saying people should stop with what they're doing though, not at all. Do whatever you want to let those creative juices flowing

--Erwin

[Marek]

Gems like KQ1VGA and The Lost Chapter aside, this is the general impression I get from most fan-made sequels/remakes:

Return To Monkey Island: Largo Is Back!
PROGRESS BAR: (last updated: 5 months ago)
Story: 56%
Dialog: 4,5%
Backgrounds: 11,2%
Music: 1%
Overambition: 96%
Pragmatism: -83,2%

It's usually quite easy to tell which projects are going to succeed and which ones are likely to fail.

However, I do think fan-created sequels serve a very important function. They're sort of a testing ground for new amateur developers. Because these projects often use existing characters and assets, the threshold is low, and it's easy to get some very basic experience in designing your own game. Sure, work is usually slow, sometimes projects are completely restarted because the team wants a different screen resolution, and things like that. But that doesn't matter. I imagine that for most people these projects are just an excuse to do something fun.

I think the discussions about the legality and the merit of fan-created sequels isn't that important. If there's a good fan-made sequel, it will drift to the top. While I don't think the others are worth any serious coverage on game sites, I do think those projects help to make the community bigger and stronger, and they're a nice way for people to experience game design first hand.

[AFGNCAAP]

Originally Posted by remixor

Can anyone honestly say they consider their favorite Space Quest game to be any less fun just because some people put out a Space Quest fan game?

Indirectly, yes. Think Escape from Monkey Island. I happen to like it, but many forumites will say it shames their favourite franchise. They won't mean EMI made them suddenly hated the previous installments. But they are fed up with LucasArts because of the game. Now, why sould that be different with amateur-products? Sure, it's freeware, but by the same token, do you tend to like borrowed commercial game more than the ones you bought?

Originally Posted by Stinger

I think you're allowing that there actually could be a decent fan-sequel out there.

Of course, I hope I managed to put that across. Alas, I have't played The Lost Chapter yet (or any SQ for that matter ), but I'll second Erwin and mention how much the Tierra guys impressed me with both their works. I hope that the fact they changed company's name indicates there will be some original project after the release of Quest for Glory 2.

But games like Broken Sword 2.5 have me very worried, especially because I don't like the idea of making your own extension to a story that is still active, and still being written by Revolution.

That's the worst kind, really. But even if the series is theoretically abandoned by the company, it's not enough excuse - check out my Gabriel Knight example. That said, I probably wouldn't mind Sins of the Past type of game (see Deshrill's post) that much, while an indepedent, say, GK4: Visitors from the Sky would make my blood boil. Although according to the law they would be equally wrong, the SotP would use Jane Jensen's creation as a base for a fan-fiction. VftS would from the very beginning disguise itself as an unofficial, yet true heir of the legacy. I'll repeat that I'm discussing creative/moral rather than legal issues.

Originally Posted by Marek

However, I do think fan-created sequels serve a very important function. They're sort of a testing ground for new amateur developers. Because these projects often use existing characters and assets, the threshold is low, and it's easy to get some very basic experience in designing your own game.

Certainly, but if the only reason for picking an existing brand is my will to save some time, why not use Reality On The Norm instead? Isn't it one of its purposes?

[Deshrill]

Originally posted by Erwin_Br: Do whatever you want to let those creative juices flowing

Erwin_Br, you said in one sentence what I was trying to say in 2 rambling, single-spaced pages.

Originally posted by Marek:However, I do think fan-created sequels serve a very important function. They're sort of a testing ground for new amateur developers.

Marek, that was a point I was trying to make in my post, but I don't think it came across as clearly as when you made it.

Originally posted by AFGNCAAP:Think Escape from Monkey Island. I happen to like it, but many forumites will say it shames their favourite franchise.

Great point. This happens all the time, really. Escape From Monkey Island is a game I have mixed feelings about. I do not think it was as good as the first three, but it still was funny and kept the same comedic tone as other games in the series (although Ron Gilbert's MI2 had a dark tone that would be nice to see in the MI games again). My biggest problem with the 4th game is the graphics. It's not about the whole 3-D look; I don't care if an adventure game is 2-D or 3-D, as long as it's good. I thought the look of the 3-D graphics, while consistent in style with the graphics in previous MI games, looked ugly; I had the same problem graphically with GK3.

Yeah, the name change of Tierra would seem to mean that they have an original project in the works. I can't wait! I really like how with KQ2 they fleshed out the games a lot. I agree with your creative/moral stance, although I've never thought of it that way.

I have had an idea for a few years to do a remake of the first Gabriel Knight game with the graphics/gameplay style of Police Quest 1. Some puzzles would be different (although the first room in the game [GK's bedroom in the back of St. George's Bookstore] would have the infamous Sierra large pit that's tough to walk around). On my computer I might still have some concept artwork I did in MS Paint for the first two rooms, if anyone would want me to post them. It used an intentionally ugly color scheme (neon yellow and purple, with brown floors)... Back at home (5 + hours away), I have a folder full on concept artwork and "fake box art" sketches. The idea was to try and do a parody of both the GK series and the old Sierra games in general. I think the title was something like Sins of the Schatenhummerfelten-- A Gabriel Dwight Mystery.

AFGNCAAP, thanks for liking my GK "Sins of the Past" idea. I was just making stuff up off the top of my head to make a point when I was writing the uber-long post.

Yeah, Erwin_Br, FoA was a great game. I also loved the Last Crusade adventure game, but the branching paths after the intro quest in FoA better. Hal Barwood's design and writing was really great; the alternate endings were also a treat.

[eriq]

Originally Posted by Marek

...I do think those projects help to make the community bigger and stronger, and they're a nice way for people to experience game design first hand.

exactly.

[AFGNCAAP]

One more thing to add. Obviously, Remixor is right when saying that nobody forces me to download anything. It is however not that simple when I change perspective from the adventure gamer to:

1) Designer. Had I worked for years on creating an acclaimed game, I wouldn't feel comfortable with somebody messing with my world and my characters.
2) Casual gamer. If I discovered the amateur community by pure luck and saw the amount of Runaway1.5-kind of games, I'd be discouraged from playing the worthwile fansequels (or, in extreme case, amateur games in general).

That stated,something that Marek pointed out is reassuring: most of these projects will be never finished and let us hope that a natural selection of sort will kill precisely those which would lose the spirit and the quality of the originals.

Deshrill: I'd like to see screenshots from your Schatenhummerfeltenspiel. And I know that you made up the GK-prequel, but it's still a cool idea.

[Deshrill]

AFGNCAAP, those are some great points, especially the "nobody forces you to download anything". However, with the proliferation of pop-up ads, they can sure as hell annoy you to download things.

I was looking on my computer to find the files and must have deleted them by accident.

Still, back at home (5+ hours away), I have a folder full of crappy concept sketches (like what Gabriel would look like as a AGI-era sprite). In fact, I think instead of making it a Gabriel Knight game, I called it a Habriel Dwight game to make it very obvious it was a parody. I have no scanner, but my room-mate does...

I have a lot of college projects to work on right now, but if I can I'll open up Photoshop and try and redraw one of the rooms.

Thanks for liking the idea. I was inspired by this whole retro-craze with the Space Quest projects and so on.

I think Schatenhummerfeltenspiel means The Shadow Lobster Toy nonsense word... If it was Schatenhummerfettenskrieger, it would roughly translate to The Greasy Shadow Lobster Warrior (is this accurate? I dropped out of a German class in college and just was using some web resources? is the grammar right?)

Wow, I like the natural selection thing. It reminds me of Prey, the new Michael Crichton book. Prey was one of the better books by him I've read; the plot is kind of ludicrous, but it has lots of asides on AI programming that I found really fascinating.

As a side note, I do video editing in my spare time. Last night (from midnight to 3:00 AM [!!]) I cut together a satirical trailer using video from the infamous William Shatner "Get a Life" SNL sketch with audio from a Classical style ReMix of music from a Dragon Warrior game from OverClocked Remix.

If you want to see it, click the link (it's Quicktime MOV. It is around 8 MEGS and hosted on my college server, so the speed might be fast or slow-- I don't have compressed versions of it online yet.

Here is the link to my trailer if you wanna see it: Shatner's Super Funtime House of Terror

[Zygomaticus]

Originally Posted by remixor

Meh. This stuff is never going to stop, and in all honestly I don't see why it has to. You're right that most of it is crap, but it really doesn't matter. Can anyone honestly say they consider their favorite Space Quest game to be any less fun just because some people put out a Space Quest fan game? It's really not a big deal. At least people are learning skills that may eventually enable them to make their own original games. Sure, I'd rather have an original game than a fan game, all else equal of course, but since there is no finite limit on how many amateur games can be produced, I don't think it does any harm.
As far as self-criticism goes, I think that may as well apply to all amateur games, tribute or not. I'd love to see an overal upward shift in quality of amateur adventures in general, no matter what the plots are based on. I understand the spirit of your post, but I'm not sure what specific "harm" you fear, besides an overall decline in appreciation for the original game series. To me, though, this just doesn't seem likely.

If ever words were taken out of my mouth, that was it.