[DaveGilbert]

To an extent I agree. The concept of a fangame screams laziness to me. I am a big advocate of originality. However, the sheer effort and talent that went into the KQ2 remake pretty much contradicts all that, but they are the one exception that I can see. (Although I'm half-convinced that Tierra/AGD is a team of ex-Sierra employees.)

And yeah, you could called "Reality on the Norm" a series of fangames. An acceptable series of fangames. It's probably the only place where you are encouraged to rely on other peoples' ideas!

-Dave

[Erwin_Br]

Originally Posted by DaveGilbert

(Although I'm half-convinced that Tierra/AGD is a team of ex-Sierra employees.)

Heh, that's a nice theory. Never thought about it. It'd explain the 'anonymous game developer' titles.

--Erwin

[Deshrill]

Ya know, I checked out the Reality on the Norm project and thinks it's a great idea. I haven't played any of the games though.

How is the quality of the Reality on the Norm games? Are they shorter games than a typical adventure game??

[DaveGilbert]

Originally Posted by Deshrill

Ya know, I checked out the Reality on the Norm project and thinks it's a great idea. I haven't played any of the games though.

How is the quality of the Reality on the Norm games? Are they shorter games than a typical adventure game??

The quality varies from game to game. In a series that allows anyone to make a game, anyone WILL make a game, so the quality is bound to fluxuate. There are games that are sheer works of briliance, and there are games that are pure flotsom. But it's the series as a whole, rather than the individual games, that makes the project so cool.

As for length, most of them are very short. Some might take a few hours to play, some maybe 20 minutes. This is a good thing, since it allows newcomers to get through the 60+ games without too much trouble.

-Dave

[RLacey]

I have always been of the view that high quality, original games are superior to high quality fanmade sequels.

The problem I have with many fanmade sequels is their desire to thrust injokes at me throughout the game. And, please, no more dodgy Monkey Island references!

As you have all pointed out, though, there are a number of extremely high quality fanmade sequels/remakes, and I wish them all the best with their projects. I just worry that some people are writing fangames because they are starved of original ideas.

At the end of the day, it comes down to the quality of the game, and far too often fangames seem to be of a low quality .

I can tell I'm in trouble, though. I like Escape From Monkey Island...

[custard]

iirc, one of the AGDs did say their real name, they just don't go shouting it about

[AGA]

Yep, AGD 1's real name is Brit.

[Zygomaticus]

Originally Posted by AGA

Yep, AGD 1's real name is Brit.

Calling oneself Brit is no different from calling oneself Anonymous Game Developer 1. You still don't know who they are...there could be thousands of Brits in the world...

EDIT: that came off silly: thousands of Brits in the world...

[AGA]

Well indeed, but I still don't see that their names make any difference anyway... If I chose to "publish" my games under the nick AGA and never reveal my real name, what difference would it make?

Besides, if you read "King's Quest II+ VGA remake by Brit Whatever and Dave Smith", would that be anywhere near as memorable as "by Tierra Entertainment"? I'd imagine Tierra have reason not to wanna reveal their real names openly anyway, in case Sierra ever turned sour and decided to sue... Or it could be that their claim that all they're interested in is remaking classic adventures and not hogging publicity is actually true

[Deshrill]

Originally Posted by AGA

Well indeed, but I still don't see that their names make any difference anyway... If I chose to "publish" my games under the nick AGA and never reveal my real name, what difference would it make?

I think the only reason why they wouldn't want to reveal their real name is for lawsuit reasons... I really don't know. I think that the quality on the KQ1VGA and KQ2VGA remakes were so high that I'm surprised real names were not used in the credits.

Another reason might be the Internet's high usage of handles/nicknames. Why be Bob Smith when you can be Guybrush_Threepwood87?

[MaXxX]

Whoa, by looking at the age of this thread, I feel like a necromancer...

Personally, I cannot help but agree with the starter of this thread - but I believe I have found something in the way of a solution to the "harming the franchise" problem. Also, there is still the problem of not how fan-made Gabriel Knight 4 might suck, but how MANY Gabriel Knight 4's there might appear, if they fail to notice each other early enough.

The solution, I think, would be to just keep our bloody hands off the numbers in the titles! "Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers" - no number, so it's number 1, official. "Gabriel Knight 2: The Beast Within" - number 2, obvious. Same with 3, 4, 5, however many Her Majesty J.J. decides to make. (Wishful thinking, isn't it.)

However, a title scheme like "Gabriel Knight Unofficial Episode: Terror of the Mutant Zombies" might be an easy enough solution.


That, however, brings me to a yet another issue, spewing forth a myriad of questions. Who holds the rights to the various Sierra games, like LSL, KQ, QFG, GK? To what extent can unofficial game authors abuse the copyright-protected names and titles? Are the original game masterminds (Roberta and Ken Williams, Jane Jensen, forgot the others, sorry) capable, in any way, of continuing their old titles?
Is there any FAQ list with answers to those, perhaps, so that I won't end up wasting someone's typing time?

[Royal Fool]

I recently unearthed some Unreal Tournament 2003 fanfiction. I shivered.

[remixor]

Originally Posted by MaXxX

That, however, brings me to a yet another issue, spewing forth a myriad of questions. Who holds the rights to the various Sierra games, like LSL, KQ, QFG, GK? To what extent can unofficial game authors abuse the copyright-protected names and titles? Are the original game masterminds (Roberta and Ken Williams, Jane Jensen, forgot the others, sorry) capable, in any way, of continuing their old titles?

Sierra (Vivendi) owns the rights entirely, nobody else. The game designers have no legal rights to the properties.

[Wormsie]

Originally Posted by Deshrill

Another reason might be the Internet's high usage of handles/nicknames. Why be Bob Smith when you can be Guybrush_Threepwood87?

Because you'd probably get messed up with Guybrush_Threepwood86, Guybrush_Threepwood85, Guybrush_Threepwood88, or any of the Guybrush variants that float around the net. Apparently they have had to go so far in numbering the different Guybrushes that the highest number is 122 or something.

[Maquisard]

I think fangames are a valid form of expression. I know that there are people, including myself, whose creative juices are at their highest when inspired by a fascinating piece of fiction. We dwell in that world and imagine things that could be. I don't know how many hours I've spent drawing new designs for Star Trek ships.

If you notice, however, that most fangames are crap, I think this is because, with most of these fans, this was their first go at making an adventure. The underground community benefits from these people teaching themselves on these, if you will, training wheels, and eventually learning how to make original pieces of fiction, at a higher quality.

[funkyone]

:eek: What AFGNCAAP has said makes a really valid point...

However, I sometimes really appreciate the fan-made games... even if they're not the greatest; simply because after some games, it feels like it may have ended too quickly, or there are some ends that weren't tied up that well... hence, where fan-made games come into play. I also like to be able to browse through various fan-made games if I'm in the mood for that "genre" and I've out-played all the original classics. Honestly, one for instance is the Space Quest series or Monkey Island series... I'd have loved to see them make an open-ended sort of game along these lines, so you can just keep journeying around and doing stuffs, perhaps add on mods or something, but alas, the game ends, and we're left with the need or even yerning for *more*.

I also believe fan games may be a good form of artistic creativity, not only because they stem usually from good appreciation... but in turn, albeit inadvertantly, bring light back to the classics that so many may have forgotten about... perhaps even the peril that befell Sierra. The fact Sierra got bought out, and then run into the ground... and as you said, Jane Jensen fighting and struggling to get the rights to HER own work back. Perhaps if more people see such light brought back to the works of Sierra, the *classic* works, and it can be seen just how inspiring and awesome Sierra was in their productions... perhaps it might strengthen the original programmers (like Jane Jensen) and others to do a Sierra Revival. Maybe someday we could see Space Quest: Trailing the Universe; or King's Quest: Succeeding a New Generation; or perhaps Police Quest: Real-Life Encounters... Gabriel Knight: Poltergeist Chronicles, Leisure Suit Larry: Still Shaving the Palms... who knows... would be neat to see. [***Note BTW: for anybody who mentions "they have that new Leisure Suit Larry video-game out... true, they do, but look at the developers of it... it's not Sierra. ] *we miss you Sierra!*

[CSY]

an existing franchise gives you attention that you wouldnt have otherwise

well as a designer im not sure how i would feel seeing my "world" getting screwed with

well nothing against the amateurdesigners. im sure they have good intentions.

it scares me seeing fanmade sequels and most of the times i would never play one since i dont want the feelings destroyed wich i established with this game. its risky enough if its a sequel by the same company

[Two birds]

Originally Posted by Royal Fool

I recently unearthed some Unreal Tournament 2003 fanfiction. I shivered.

Clearly you have not even begun to gaze upon fanfiction.net. More than four THOUSAND stories for Sonic the Hedgehog alone.

What I want to say is pretty much summed up in one example. There was an Ultima fan game that asked the owners of the copyright for permission to make a fan game.

Owners of the copyright, as much as some people like to rage against the machine, really would like to stay in business. If they give people permission, a standard has been set - and there is no incentive for a copyright holder to give permission to fans to use intellectual property.

The lawyers told the fans no. The fans screamed and ranted and raved, and walked away from everything they had made so far. If your work is worthwhile and competent, the copyright doesn't matter. Make your game. Tell your story. It was as if the fans were convinced nothing they could do would be worth anything unless the name of the game they had played when they were kids was attached. None of them said "Oh well, I guess now we'll have to think of something original." They just gave up.

[HaiDang]

Personally I do not link fanmade sequels to the original so much that it should bother me if the sequels suck. They don't bring any shame to the original, coz they ain't a part of the original. If anyone think they are, well I just don't think the same.

Seriously, I'm saying in a friendly, non-condescending tone that before you want them amateurs to shut down their sequel projects, which may suck, you may want to adopt a new view point. Try not taking the sequels too seriously.

Anyway, if you're annoyed that those people don't think of something original, I can partly share the feeling (I guess there are sequels with creativity galore, and I'm not talking about them). However, again, I'm just not that annoyed (probably an issue of characteristic, LOL). To me it's like "OK those guys are dull. They made lame efforts to copy. I'll just forget them".