You are viewing an archived version of the site which is no longer maintained.
Go to the current live site or the Adventure Gamers forums
Adventure Gamers



View Poll Results: Do you like first person adventure games?
Yes 14 37.84%
No 14 37.84%
Don't Mind 7 18.92%
Other - Please elaborate! 2 5.41%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-19-2006, 09:08 PM   #1
More slaw!!!
 
Toefur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Downunderverse
Posts: 584
Default First person games?

What do you guys think of first person games? Especially in amateur games, there seems to be even more dislike of first person adventure games than is general. (Nothing to back this up with of course, just my impression). I am/have been working on a little game, and am going the first person route. This is solely because I lack the ability to draw characters and character animations/walk cycles etc (and no one will do it for me).

I just worry that maybe not as many people will play it, or like it, because it's first person?

Please do share your thoughts.
__________________
Tex Murphy is back! - Kickstarter project now accepting your support!
Toefur is offline  
Old 02-19-2006, 09:13 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Legolas813's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,783
Send a message via AIM to Legolas813
Default

I've never cared for first-person adventures. I will only play one if I'm really interested in the subject matter (such is the case with Scratches). Otherwise, I won't touch them. Third-person is the way to go, IMO.

This type of discussion has surely been done before, and you will find differing opinions.
Legolas813 is offline  
Old 02-19-2006, 09:48 PM   #3
Super Moderator
 
Melanie68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,907
Default

I say go for it! If it isn't a common beast in the world of amateur adventure games, you may find people are more willing to check it out. I would.
Melanie68 is offline  
Old 02-19-2006, 10:15 PM   #4
Translate Me
 
nikoniko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 418
Default

I like second-person adventures best.

I prefer third- to first-person generally, because I find it more stimulating and interesting. In a first-person game, I typically feel like the character is simply 'me', and though I'm rather fond of myself, I'd rather step into the shoes of someone else. Sure, a first-person game can give you a good backstory to try to put you into character, but still I find it easier to engage with the character if he or she is onscreen.

Another reason I prefer third-person is that it reinforces my interaction with the environment. If I click on something in Myst and it reacts, I feel the same as I do using a web browser and clicking a link: it's nothing special. But when I can see my character walk across the screen and pick something up, I feel drawn into the experience and it's more like something has actually "happened".

That said, none of this stops me from trying out interesting-looking first-person games, so if that's what you're going for, I wish you all the best. And certainly, it's always best to work within your own abilities. If you can't draw or animate characters well, and no one else can help you, then you definitely should stick with what you're good at.

I'll look forward to playing the finished game someday.

Last edited by nikoniko; 02-19-2006 at 10:22 PM.
nikoniko is offline  
Old 02-19-2006, 10:33 PM   #5
Jack Bauer loves you
 
artwking4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
Send a message via AIM to artwking4
Default

Make a first person adventure game like Shannara, Xanth, or Death Gate (in that style - not necessarily fantasy, I mean), and I'll play it. Well, eventually. I've got too many other things demanding my attention at the moment.
__________________
An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. -- Robert A. Heinlein
artwking4 is offline  
Old 02-20-2006, 01:46 AM   #6
Game Creator Hobbyist
 
Trumgottist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Stockholm (or Gotland)
Posts: 2,609
Default

I find it slightly strange that there are so few first person games among the amateur games. As you note, it's a good way to avoid doing walk cycles. On the other hand, you don't get a main character to focus the game on in the same way and if I look at my own game, it clearly wouldn't have worked as a first-person game. It's all about what kind of game you want to make.

I voted "yes". I like both first, second, and third person games.
__________________
Play my game: Frasse and the Peas of Kejick. The Special Edition is now available! (Mac OS X or Windows.)
Trumgottist is offline  
Old 02-20-2006, 02:10 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Ninth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 6,409
Default

As much as I loved 3rd person games, I'm finding myself drawn more and more toward 1st person. Not having to wait to the main character to cross a bunch of screens is a huge plus, in my opinion.
__________________
...It's down there somewhere. Let me have another look.
Ninth is offline  
Old 02-20-2006, 02:33 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 66
Default

there are four problem with FPA (first person adventure?) -

1) they tend to be a 'myst' style games. and i personally don't like 'valve riddles'.

2) they tend to put less weight on the player character, i personally like to see who am i playing.

3) usually these games has problem with navigation (don't tell me you never got lost int these games).

4)sometimes the FP POV is used to cut the costs of creating human characters. and so the game world becomes dull and empty. (best example - mostly every myst style games, not such a good example - starship titanic)
TheGreyMatter is offline  
Old 02-20-2006, 03:21 AM   #9
Dungeon Master
 
AFGNCAAP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,152
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toefur
I just worry that maybe not as many people will play it, or like it, because it's first person?
Personally, I wouldn't give a damn about people who write my game off just because of the perspective, but that's just me. Choose whatever will serve your game best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doroposo
I like second-person adventures best.

I prefer third- to first-person generally, because I find it more stimulating and interesting. In a first-person game, I typically feel like the character is simply 'me', and though I'm rather fond of myself, I'd rather step into the shoes of someone else. Sure, a first-person game can give you a good backstory to try to put you into character, but still I find it easier to engage with the character if he or she is onscreen.
Sure (at least theoretically, as I'm sure we could list dozens of hollow and forgettable player characters in third person games), but wouldn't the same criticism apply to "second person", then?

Quote:
Another reason I prefer third-person is that it reinforces my interaction with the environment. If I click on something in Myst and it reacts, I feel the same as I do using a web browser and clicking a link: it's nothing special. But when I can see my character walk across the screen and pick something up, I feel drawn into the experience and it's more like something has actually "happened".
I understand the sentiment, but in context of amateur games, often you won't witness detailed animations of picking things up etc., anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreyMatter
there are four problem with FPA (first person adventure?) -

1) they tend to be a 'myst' style games. and i personally don't like 'valve riddles'.
They "tend to be", no more than third person adventures "tend to be" (or used to) Sierra's quest games (so I could say that I don't like third person games, because I don't like dead ends in adventure games). There is nothing in first person view that dictates this kind of gameplay, and, on the other hand, there is nothing to stop designers from putting hundred valve puzzles in a third person game.

Quote:
2) they tend to put less weight on the player character, i personally like to see who am i playing.
As I said to doroposo, that's true (at least in theory), and you have every right to dislike it.

Quote:
3) usually these games has problem with navigation (don't tell me you never got lost int these games).
Yeah, I did get lost in Myst 3 once. It's not enough to claim they usually have this problem, though. And, even if, there is no reason to assume it to be an inherent flaw of the first person view. I haven't seen many reviewers slamming Half Life for navigation problems.

Quote:
4)sometimes the FP POV is used to cut the costs of creating human characters. and so the game world becomes dull and empty. (best example - mostly every myst style games, not such a good example - starship titanic)
How can you "use" FP POV to cut the costs of creating non player characters? I don't understand. If anything, it would be the other way round - you decide not to spend time/money on character models, and as that includes player's character, you make the game in first person.
__________________
What's happening? Wh... Where am I?
AFGNCAAP is offline  
Old 02-20-2006, 03:35 AM   #10
Fire Dragon/Pisces
 
Jolaes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hungary
Posts: 334
Default

Toefur,

don't worry, just write the game as best suited to your skills and the basic concept of the game. If you do too much polling beforehand, you might get discouraged by the sheer diversity of opinions.
So, as AFGNCAAP said, don't give a damn about the FOV (field of view, not Emily)
__________________
Ita in vita ut in lusu alae pessima iactura arte corrigenda est.
Jolaes is offline  
Old 02-20-2006, 06:27 AM   #11
woof
 
Karmillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NOT REALLY RIGHT HERE
Posts: 4,750
Send a message via AIM to Karmillo Send a message via MSN to Karmillo
Default

I like the direct control ones...erm one...
So far Normality seems to be the only one of its kind.
__________________
"I've got nothing to lose! Except for...well everything."
Karmillo is offline  
Old 02-20-2006, 07:12 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Ninth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 6,409
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP
Yeah, I did get lost in Myst 3 once. It's not enough to claim they usually have this problem, though. And, even if, there is no reason to assume it to be an inherent flaw of the first person view.
You can get lost in 3rd person games... Think Orion Conspiracy, for example.
__________________
...It's down there somewhere. Let me have another look.
Ninth is offline  
Old 02-20-2006, 08:02 AM   #13
Dungeon Master
 
AFGNCAAP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,152
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmillo
I like the direct control ones...erm one...
So far Normality seems to be the only one of its kind.
How do you define direct control? I believe most full 3D adventures (not that there were that many of them) had direct control movement, from the top of my head: Overseer and Sentinel. And a couple of node-based ones did, too, eg. Journeyman Project.
__________________
What's happening? Wh... Where am I?
AFGNCAAP is offline  
Old 02-20-2006, 08:26 AM   #14
Adventure Game Elitist
 
Gonchi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Uruguay
Posts: 831
Send a message via ICQ to Gonchi Send a message via MSN to Gonchi Send a message via Yahoo to Gonchi
Default

I'm not a big fan of first person anything. My experience with FPP Adventure games have led me to the conclusion that they generally rely on puzzles over characters and dialogue to forward the plot that often results in a feeling of utter desolation throughout them. In addition I personally find FPP very disorienting and least immersive of all perspectives, with the perception of your surrounding environment being considerably narrow and an unreal sense of movement that feels as if you're floating around rather than walking.

So summing up, while I wouldn't write off a FPP game just because it utilizes said perspective, it would be rowing against current for my interest and time.

Last edited by Gonchi; 02-20-2006 at 08:32 AM.
Gonchi is offline  
Old 02-20-2006, 11:11 PM   #15
Translate Me
 
nikoniko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 418
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP
Sure (at least theoretically, as I'm sure we could list dozens of hollow and forgettable player characters in third person games), but wouldn't the same criticism apply to "second person", then?
I guess it wasn't clear I was making a tongue-in-cheek comment. I thought that would help soften anything else I said.

I'm not even sure what a second person adventure would be, unless it was from the same outside view as third person but with the character literally being "you", the player, rather than someone you just happen to control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP
I understand the sentiment, but in context of amateur games, often you won't witness detailed animations of picking things up etc., anyway.
No, but that doesn't really matter to me. I enjoyed the Atari game Adventure despite my character being nothing but a square dot with one frame on animation. For a more relevant example, the amateur adventure Spooks works very well despite very little character animation. The main character is a floating ghoul who simply bobs up and down to move. She doesn't do anything special when picking something up.

I didn't say that Toefur should do a third person adventure, in fact I suggested he shouldn't. I was only answering his question.
nikoniko is offline  
Old 02-21-2006, 03:28 AM   #16
OB
 
Orange Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 662
Default

One of these days someone will develop that killer first person adventure and all will change. It'll be controlled like a FPS, and everything else will be like your everyday 3rd person adventure. Just think of any 3rd person game played in 1st(and tweaked/adapted for it), and you'll get the idea.
__________________
The Disenfranchised™ - A Film Noir adventure series for the PC. Coming later.
Orange Brat is offline  
Old 02-21-2006, 01:25 PM   #17
Game Creator Hobbyist
 
Trumgottist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Stockholm (or Gotland)
Posts: 2,609
Default

2nd person:
Quote:
At End Of Road
You are standing at the end of a road before a small brick building. Around you is a forest. A small stream flows out of the building and down a gully.

>
As I stated earlier, I like second person games, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange Brat
One of these days someone will develop that killer first person adventure and all will change. It'll be controlled like a FPS, and everything else will be like your everyday 3rd person adventure. Just think of any 3rd person game played in 1st(and tweaked/adapted for it), and you'll get the idea.
Any third person played in first? Some of them, probably, but some games just wouldn't work that way. And I don't think Myst/Riven/Zork GI... would have worked as well as 3rd person either. The perspectives are not interchangeable.
__________________
Play my game: Frasse and the Peas of Kejick. The Special Edition is now available! (Mac OS X or Windows.)
Trumgottist is offline  
Old 02-21-2006, 01:39 PM   #18
Dungeon Master
 
AFGNCAAP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,152
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trumgottist
2nd person:
Quote:
At End Of Road
You are standing at the end of a road before a small brick building. Around you is a forest. A small stream flows out of the building and down a gully.

>
That's what I thought doroposo had in mind.
__________________
What's happening? Wh... Where am I?
AFGNCAAP is offline  
Old 02-21-2006, 02:10 PM   #19
Translate Me
 
nikoniko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 418
Default

I had thought of that, but I'm not sure what a graphical second person adventure would be. First person in the graphical sense usually means a view from the character's eyes, regardless of whether the game uses "I" or "You" -- so second person is kind of folded into the first person category. I love second person interactive fiction, but I'm not clear what a distinct graphical equivalent would be.
nikoniko is offline  
Old 02-21-2006, 02:13 PM   #20
Game Creator Hobbyist
 
Trumgottist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Stockholm (or Gotland)
Posts: 2,609
Default

That would be impossible. I think first person is the closest equivalent. (Just look at the Zorks.)
__________________
Play my game: Frasse and the Peas of Kejick. The Special Edition is now available! (Mac OS X or Windows.)
Trumgottist is offline  
 



Thread Tools

 


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.