01-25-2006, 02:23 PM | #41 |
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I finished Day 2 as well. It's much more gamelike - figuring out how to find out what's at the bottom of the pool. One of the first things I did was watch TV. I thought it odd that you couldn't talk about the news to any of the others. I would think it was natural to mention that the world outside is aware of the disappearence. When they were talking about their dreams, I fully expected them to say that they were the killers, so it came as a bit of a shock to hear Simone say that she identified Trilby. I noticed the Sir Roderick's portrait discrepancy, and immediately went upstairs to see if his wife's does the same thing ( ........no). Looking forward to Day 3 .
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01-25-2006, 06:44 PM | #42 |
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Playing this game, it reminds you why the underground scene is so important. Taking the creative risk of making a game set in such a small, almost claustrophobic space is a commercial risk most developers could never take - as is making the game just long enough so that it rolls forwards like an express train without the main story arc getting dull or unnecessarily complicated.
The design of the manor reminds me of Yahtzee's beloved Silent Hill games; levels based on a large building with most of the rooms closed off, which open as you progress. As for day 2; this is definitely where the story kicks in, and the payoff for the dull day one becomes apparent. This game has the scariest visuals ever produced on MS Paint, using music and shock tactics well to ramp up the scares; the discovery of AJs body makes you feel sick, it is so grey and lifeless, and as for the body in the bath or the realisation that everyone's dreams cast you as the welder... can't beat it for scares. Although this is jumping the gun a bit, I like the way death is handled in this game. It's always fair, clearly signposted, and used sparingly to rank up the tension; if you knew you couldn't die in this game, it would make a lot of the terror redundant.
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01-26-2006, 01:00 AM | #43 | ||
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01-26-2006, 05:03 AM | #44 | |
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01-26-2006, 05:07 AM | #45 | |
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01-26-2006, 01:06 PM | #46 |
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I've just finished Day 2. I can't say I'm very much into the game, but it's not bad. Once again, there are some severe story-telling flaws: the story 'naturally' draws the player to the question of the hidden staircase (and I thought I'd find AJ('s body?) there), but... no, that's not it at all, you're actually supposed to think of having a look at the pool. That's a design flaw for a game, but, more importantly, it's a story-telling problem.
And the game is going too fast; the story has no time to breathe: you don't even have time to reflect on the fact that AJ's body should be all bluish and swollen (instead of what it looks like in the game) that, blam, another dream sequence (this is getting tired by the way). The game being too short really shows in that sequence too: the only bit of backstory is the mysterious story of the son and the father, and, guess what, you have a dream about a son and his father! I understand that this is an amateur game, but, well, I've already argued several times that it's extremely important to fit the story and the medium used to tell it, and this game shows the problem perfectly: if you want to build a ghost mystery, you need a lot of subtlety, something this game greatly lacks, in part because of its extremely short nature. Oh, and the 'people moving around and disappearing mysteriously' system is feeling more and more problematic; I understand the technical difficulties, but, well, it really hampers believability of the story (and the atmosphere) and, once again, if your medium is not suited to the story you want to tell, then just tell another one! (Gosh, I'm starting to sound like MoriartyL in the BASS playthrough...) Oh, and two vital questions: 1) Is it normal that I have no music while exploring the house? There used to be some at the beginning of the game, but it stopped at some point on day 1 (when I first met Philip, maybe?), and never came back. It still plays in the cutscenes / dream sequences, though. 2) What are these people eating?
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01-26-2006, 03:39 PM | #47 | ||||||
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01-26-2006, 05:13 PM | #48 |
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Salt.
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01-26-2006, 06:07 PM | #49 | ||||||
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I agree that it's a problem that the game lets you go ahead and drain the pool even if you don't know the reason to do it, but this is a tricky problem which even professional games often get wrong. I wouldn't call it a major storytelling problem. Quote:
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I will agree that it's a pretty simple ghost story, although you shouldn't assume that everything is as it seems... Quote:
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01-27-2006, 02:25 AM | #50 | ||||||||
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And, once again, this is a story-telling problem. This game is basically sending two contradictory signals: 1) Be careful, people are disappearing and dying, you should make sure to check if you can find them, because they may turn up dead any moment. Be afraid. MWAHAHAHAHA! 2) Well, characters are there when the designer needs them, and then the rest of the time they're just nowhere. Don't worry, move along, there's no point even noticing that. You see the problem? And the consequence of that is that the game can't let the player realise that someone is missing and start worrying about finding them, and instead has to rely on the other characters repeating that someone is missing. Once again, this lacks subtlety. Quote:
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1) The problem of the appearing / disappearing characters. See above. And that's why I didn't think AJ would materialise in the pool, and therefore I didn't think of looking there until much later. 2) The game relies too much on random backtracking. I mean, it's been two days, and it has already happened twice: Jim in the tree and AJ in the pool. I'm completely willing to have a look around each room everyday, of course, but if that means having to look at / use everything in every room in hopes that something will have changed, then I don't like it. Actually, I find that even worse than the eagle in KQ1 (which I mentioned in the BASS playthrough as an example of bad backtracking). Also, note how in both cases this problem is related to the first one (the characters moving around magically). 3) The designer expects you to play the story in a special order (that is, seeing that there's something to do with the pool first), instead of thinking that you could be seeing things a completely different way (and looking for a way to access the hidden passage). Quote:
Hey, wait a minute, I understand! It's a game about quantum physics, Schrödinger's cat, and all that. Quote:
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01-27-2006, 03:21 AM | #51 |
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All referencing to Kurufinwe's post above. Sorry, haven't got time to sort out the quoting.
I see what your saying about the backstory now. I'd be grateful if you'd revisit this topic after day 3 to see if that changes your view any (or if it doesn't why not) While backstory is limited I see it as a gradual progression revealing the mystery.
I agree with you about AJ (his disappearance at the beginning of Day 1 is impossible to justify given the layout of the house) I think having the other characters static simplifies the design issue of characters only being there when you need them. Day 1 they had to be mobile for the introductions (and so you get the disappearance syndrome) but Day 2 they can sit in one place and not create problems. Fair comment about the order you discover things (and hence what you're expecting to do. I'm hampered here by the fact I'm replaying (so I knew the pool was key to Day 2) Schrodinger's Mutilated Corpse would have made an interesting addition to my school physics text though.
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01-27-2006, 08:23 AM | #52 |
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I don't know, I think that there is enough of a story. It is a short game, after all. Maybe it's because I usually play the types of games whare the story slowly unfolds as you work through the game, rather than it being in your face, so to speak.
One of the first things I did in Day 2 was click on the pool, so I had a strong directive to try and empty it. Phil also made a comment about finding some pipes with the metal detector, so that planted the seed about what needed to be done. I'm definitely curious about the portrait changing, and the way people disappear. As usual, I like to conjecture about things: Spoiler:
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01-27-2006, 10:36 AM | #53 | |||||||||
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I think there's good reason to expect a book on the history of the DeFoe family to be relevant. Let's step through Trilby's reasoning:
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No, his body was probably hidden there some time during the night. He has probably been underwater for only a couple of hours. It isn't like he was drowned. It would be interesting to consider this game as if we were playtesters, and make suggestions for ways to fix the problems we perceive. So far, I have:
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01-27-2006, 03:07 PM | #54 |
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Just played it there, havent really got much to say on this day...
Well someone mentioned something about Trilby trying to find a way to drain the pool when he should be looking for a way out...wouldnt you try to find out what some big blurry object is? But i was annoyed about how he didnt just jump in and look at it, allot of adventurers seem to have a problem with getting dirty lately, reminds me of a certian "Ew, I dont want to pick up that wet plank, wheres that slow kid?"
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01-28-2006, 12:43 AM | #55 | ||
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But why would the CHARACTER Trilby want to do these things? The only diggable area of the house that we know of is the garden which Phil is already scanning. Trilby wouldn't be able to search elsewhere with it (at least not without tools to pull up floorboards or break concrete) so why not leave Philip to it while he explores other avenues? Having got the detector, why would Trilby search the lawn. Philip's already searched the lawn as far as he knows so why do it again? (Philip is presumably an expert at using the metal detector being a "treasure hunter" and all) As Kurufinwe said it all comes down to Trilby realising something is up with the pool. Having spotted the blurry object he has good reason to drain the pool (possibly suspecting what the blurry object is already) Searching the lawn again then makes sense because he'd know he was looking for the pool drainage pipe, an item that Philip is likely to have detected but ignored (since he wanted to find a tomb, not drain the pool.) I think you're right about the idea of looking at this as if we were playtesters. In this case soem sort of indication of the pool changing (slight murkiness due to blood in the pool?) would set PLAYERS on the right track by giving the CHARACTER a good reason to investigate the pool. Quote:
Are we ready for more of the Hugo's House of Horrors discussion yet?
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No Nonsense Nonsonnets #43 Cold Topic A thread most controversial, that’s what I want to start Full of impassioned arguments, of posting from the heart And for this stimulation all will be thankful to me On come on everybody it won’t work if you agree Last edited by stepurhan; 01-28-2006 at 12:50 AM. |
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01-28-2006, 05:28 AM | #56 |
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hmmm, we need to wait till day 3 I think
wich is today isnt it? or twomorrow?
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01-28-2006, 07:27 AM | #57 | ||||||
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01-28-2006, 07:29 AM | #58 | |
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01-28-2006, 08:40 AM | #59 | |||||||
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(Not a spoiler for anything in the game, really): Spoiler: Quote:
Now, where else would you hide him? There's no place inside the house where he isn't going to be found at once (assuming you have access to only the same areas everyone else does). You could bury him in one of the holes Philip dug, perhaps, but someone (particularly Philip) might notice, and it might take more time than you have. (The pool is apparently quick-draining and filling.) The pool looks like the best of some pretty poor options. Quote:
When I first played 5DAS, I didn't look in the pool, either. I just wanted a metal detector (even before Trilby asked for it), because a metal detector is obviously a jolly useful thing to have in an adventure game. Trilby's motivation didn't bother me at all. I just figured he thought the same thing. Quote:
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01-28-2006, 08:43 AM | #60 |
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DAY 3
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