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Deep like the deep end of a swimming pool... but not that one I went to at the Haven holiday park. The deep end was what the shallow end is at my local pool and I'm not even going to mention the kiddie pool.
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Oh I just got that!!
Kewl. And yeah, the Haven swimming pools deep end was the same deepness as the shallow end at my local swimming pool. |
Sorry to jump on this thread now, but I just read it and well, better late than never.
A few things in response to some of the arguments here: A game gets published because the marketing at a company thinks the concept can return a wide enough profit margin. It's all about targeting a project toward a mass audience or large enough markets. Very little of it has anything to do with the actual gameplay, which is why the game shelves are crowded with King Kong, Splinter Cell, Tony Hawk Pro Galactic Moonshiner, and other licenses. It's all about harnessing a built-in audience. Video games are almost at the same level as movie scripts now, where the proposal is described in terms of previous games (i.e. Alien = Jaws set in space like True Crime = GTA in LA or something like that). Slap on some mockup screenshots and that's it, all the actual design is reduced to little details. I think of myself as a game creator. I still play commercial games, but I recognize the processes involved. To get published, the game has to be watered down for mass acceptance (or to the ESRB targets). Big companies with the kind of capital to take advantage of major channels of distribution will rarely take a risk on a project they can't pigeonhole. It's unfair to assume that getting published/mainstream acceptance is the goal of every amateur game creator. While many amateur adventures are crap, you must realize there is no external quality control on these projects. As a result, certain aspects of the game may suffer, but the creator doesn't have to make compromises on any part of the design. She can be as edgy as she wants, and since the game is free, there are no monetary risks besides the opportunity cost. In the early 90s, Nintendo made Id Software remove the blood and Nazi Imagery and even replace the German Shepherds with mutant rats in the SNES port of Wolfenstein 3d. Even in the more recent release of Return the Castle Wolfenstein, parts of the game were censored. The difference in quality (graphics, music, sound) is largely a self-imposed lack of technical expertise (if one person doing the work of 30, does one really have time to learn to fully develop your digital art skills?) or the result of time budgeting. Many small companies are formed by a group of hobbyists or enthusiasts. For instance, I believe Runaway was made by a group of amateurs. Big companies realize the advantage small teams have in terms of creativity, motivation, and speed, which is why very little creation remains in-house these days. Saying that only good games are published is like saying that only good music gets signed to a label. It's the same argument - labels sign anything they think will sell, regardless of any musical ability. Sure a lot of underground bands are bad, but some of them capitalize on the scene. The rapper, Atmosphere, has made money in denominations worthy of Snoop Dogg without having to sell nearly as many CDs! As a disclaimer to this post, I designed Apprentice and now work for a subsidiary of Ubi-Soft, so I have experience in both the amateur and the professional world. |
Oohhh. I love AudioSoldier's sexxy new avatar pic. I feel inclined to post a new sexxy avatar pic of myself. ;)
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Edit: Oh, and I agree 100% with Big Bro. --Erwin |
Welcome to the forum, Big Brother. Thanks for sharing your views. :) I was thinking along the same lines as what you said about music, but with writing -- the novels that get published aren't always the good ones. And the good ones don't always get published. ;)
Erwin & Eriq - Get a room. :shifty: |
We have a real star in our midst. If you haven't played the "Apprentice" games, they are quite amazing. I'm always rambling on about quality control and atmosphere. These guys have got it DOWN. Everything from the music to the graphics and even the voiceover work screams "professional". I adore both the Apprentice games. They are the closest thing to LucasArts quality in the "fan game" arena. Calling them fan games seems so... strange. They're that good!
http://herculeaneffort.adventuredevelopers.com/ |
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Thanks Wormsie :) If I had been a little more industrious, I would have found that. :P
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Edit: I'm downloading EvilE... |
Evil Enterprises, IMO, doesn't represent Herculean Effort at its best, as it is a short solo effort of their composer/programmer.
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From the Sam and Max thread...
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I fail to see the comparison of amateur games to books posted on websites. As you know, the discomfort that comes from reading a computer screen vs. reading a book is based on the technology you are using to view your literature, not the literature itself. Computer games, amateur or not, are all played on a computer; therefore, the above does not apply. |
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Online books/web based books can be better than most books out there, how the heck do you think people actually start writing masterpieces? They don't just fall out of the sky when you write your very first pieaces.
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"As you know, the discomfort that comes from reading a computer screen vs. reading a book is based on the technology you are using to view your literature, not the literature itself. Computer games, amateur or not, are all played on a computer; therefore, the above does not apply." What is it you're criticizing, exactly? The content, or the packaging? |
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