[NikolasFigaro]

I come from a tiny country, Greece. Greek gamers have always been very fond of adventure games, even from the very begining, despite the fact that english isn't our mother tongue. Although today many younger gamers have given into different types of games (mainly FPSs), the adventure genre is always a part of a gamer's life, especially those who have a few years of experience in computer gaming. Let us not forget that before and during the 90s the only decent games somebody could play were mainly adventure games, from the Melbourne House games, to the productions of Lucasarts, Sierra and many more. During those (romantic, may I add) times, greek gamers had the utmost respect for adventures, forming small, but very passionate communities. Even today, the love for adventure games has not gone. All the pc magazines review every single adventure, with many details, and in the most cases offer high scores, helping the whole genre stay alive. It is also very interesing that a major pc mag, Pc Master, even reviews amateur adventures.
The reason that I'm saying all this is because I really can't understand the great turn of perspective aganst adventure games during the past few years in the US and especially in Great Britain. It seems that in these countries (which are the largest markets) adventure gaming is constantly decreasing and the mainstream press treats adventure games like some form of gaming cancer, causing many decent and hardworking developers to close down. Why is all this? Passionate adventure gamers are treated as outcasts of the gaming community and everybody is repeating "adventure games are dead". Well, I agree that recent adventure games aren't as good as older ones, but the whole genre is alive and constantly growing with fresh new ideas and perspectives. How is the situation in other countries?

[GameMaster]

In UK and US this is common, because most of the new era journalists have not grown up with old adventure titles, thus they cannot, in my opinion, appreciate the new titles.
In my country (Latvia that is) the gaming community is much smaller than in UK or US (we have only one gaming magazine, and some 3-4 gaming sites, in one of which I work), but still we have negative attitude by the mainstream gaming community against adventure games. I myself am an avid adventure gamer, who has seen allmoast every major adventure title, and thus I can give the readers of the site I represent a more or less objective appraisal of adventure games. This of course puts me in a position, where many of the unexperienced readers may express negative, even agressive opinion against ag's.
I think this is because they tend to play games for quick relaxation, rather than dive into them for long ours of thinking your way through a puzzle. Adventure games are just not acceptable for mainstream audience, because they are not meant for short, relaxing gaming sessions. But that doesn't mean that they're dead.

[Henke]

Adventuregame are, as I have understood it, a little more popular in most part of Europe these days (UK excluded) if you compare to the US.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Nikolas, many of us have probably answered your question already in this thread: How come there's more interest elsewhere in adventuregaming .

Here's my take on it from that thread....

Originally Posted by Trep

[Americans are] not so much dumb, but unwilling to think more extensively, more deeply.

It's in great part cultural. Europe for the most part has always been steeped in the cultivation of storytelling, and it has had that for centuries. Not so much American culture, which is too young for such. American culture, only a few centuries old, has always been about speed (on all levels), technological progress, industry, and quick gratification. This may explain the eclipse of adventure games genre-wise here.

Though there was an interest in LucasArts and Sierra games around ten years ago, you need to take into account that it was a very small group of Americans playing them anyway, everyone else was discovering Nintendo and Playstation. PC gaming was very much a subculture then.

[samIamsad]

Current games have ZERO impact on gaming as a whole, their narrative gets kicked by other ((genres)) ten times over (way better writing, crisper storytelling), up to the point where it's all about some inventory ((puzzles)), slow pace and blah. I can't say this about some ((adventure)) games from the 90s. They were at the forefront of gaming because they deserved to be. But yeah, they're more popular in Europe because of LA's/Sierra's and some others' success in the 90s. E.g. LA sold more copies of Monkey Island in Germany than in the US. That's what Ron Gilbert said on his blog.

I think this is because they tend to play games for quick relaxation

Huge generalisation.

[Antoinetta]

Of course any such discussion will involve some amount of generalizations, but I think Trep has basically nailed it. Americans tend to be more into speed and action rather than into thought and contemplation.

Antoinetta

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Well, not all Americans, heh heh. I loved wracking my brain over Myst puzzles, but can easily turn around and yell profanities playing Project Gotham Racing 2, or skulking in the shadows grabbing gold loot in Thief: Deadly Shadows.

[SakSquash]

Ah yes, another thread where we can all bash Americans. Hey, haven't you heard? That's what the cool people do these days. Vote or die!

Anyway, I think you have to look at a lot of things. I'm not so sure i'm convinced that adventure games are more popular in every country except America. I mean, what agency is conducting this poll? Is there any evidence of this at all? And if that is the case, does it have to do with the U.S. having a bigger population than other countries. There are a ton of factors involved here. Perhaps the 24 and under age group has more disposable income in the U.S. than other countries, therefore you get all these twitch games that anyone under 12 loves. I think that without some kind of exact science, it would be impossible to tell which country loves adventure games the most and which one loves them the least.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by temporaryscars

Anyway, I think you have to look at a lot of things. I'm not so sure i'm convinced that adventure games are more popular in every country except America. I mean, what agency is conducting this poll? Is there any evidence of this at all? And if that is the case, does it have to do with the U.S. having a bigger population than other countries. There are a ton of factors involved here. Perhaps the 24 and under age group has more disposable income in the U.S. than other countries, therefore you get all these twitch games that anyone under 12 loves. I think that without some kind of exact science, it would be impossible to tell which country loves adventure games the most and which one loves them the least.

Until a very comprehensive statistic taking into account as many logistics as possible is undertaken and released (including such factors as online orders), we really have no truly stable grounds on which to discuss this. Anecdotally it does seem that adventure games don't do as well in the States compared to Europe, and that's in the most general sense possible.

[NikolasFigaro]

Originally Posted by temporaryscars

Ah yes, another thread where we can all bash Americans. Hey, haven't you heard? That's what the cool people do these days. Vote or die!

Anyway, I think you have to look at a lot of things. I'm not so sure i'm convinced that adventure games are more popular in every country except America. I mean, what agency is conducting this poll? Is there any evidence of this at all? And if that is the case, does it have to do with the U.S. having a bigger population than other countries. There are a ton of factors involved here. Perhaps the 24 and under age group has more disposable income in the U.S. than other countries, therefore you get all these twitch games that anyone under 12 loves. I think that without some kind of exact science, it would be impossible to tell which country loves adventure games the most and which one loves them the least.

Don't get me wrong, i really don't have anything against Americans (or any other nation for that matter). On the contrary, i beleive that Americans are generally intelligent people with a massive contribution to modern culture. My concerns are not why Americans or British play less adventures today, since I really don't have any solid facts if this is happening or not. The issue is why does the press in these two countries (whose mags are read across the globe and have a great impact on readers) treat adventures in the way they do. I'm not that sure that it has to do with different culture styles, since the same mags, only a few years ago, treated adventures with the utmost respect. And let's not forget the fact that the best adventure developers were based in the U.S. (so this, i guess, shows if Americans are intelligent or not). Sure, I agree that gaming traditions have changed throughout the years, and modern gamers invest their time mostly in more spectacular and eye-appealing games, but still, this doesn't really convince me. I mean, does Myst, for example, have bad graphics that repel gamers? All commercial adventure games nowadays have the highest production values. Is Day of the Tentacle, for example, considered to be a "heavy" and mind-puzzling game? I think its much more relaxing than any FPS.

[Antoinetta]

"And let's not forget the fact that the best adventure developers were based in the U.S." Posted by Nikolas Figaro

With the exception of Cyan, the "were" in the above quote is indeed the operational description here.

Antoinetta

[Intrepid Homoludens]

I dunno, but we keep talking about it as if it were some huge, deep mystery, when really, isn't it simple? There were great big shifts and changes in the gaming industry and culture in the latter half of the 90s, and for the most part Lucas Arts and Sierra decided to go with the flow, thinking that doing things like real time 3D, adding action, designing more for the console, and focusing on the demand for Star Wars themes were far more profitable. So they dumped adventure games per se, and moving away from what they perceived as a compartively shrinking market, or at the very least a market that will not grow anymore, with many people out there preferring action/adventures, sports games, The Sims, and console games, so why even feature them on the front cover or 10 page spreads?

Meanwhile the games media and mainstream media, knowing well that for the most part adventure games do nothing dramatically new on any given level, didn't think it was good business sense to continue featuring a 'genre' that has remained fundamentally unchanged (therefore 'boring' and 'outdated'), and so preferred to cover the Halos, Half-Life 2's, and Grand Theft Autos. It sells far more copies and site visits than, say, the decidedly 'flat' looking and 'boring' point-&-click interface of many 2D adventure games.

Whether or not you agree with me, you have to admit that adventure games are perceived as comercially weak and uninteresting. Many people outside these very small niche communities don't care anymore - that is, until a new rash of games come out that would ignite a renaissance for the genre. And for that to happen the genre largely has to change, adapt, and update itself.

Even Ron Gilbert said something along the lines of proposing an Adventure Game to a major publisher would be akin to committing suicide. It's a commercial risk, and even though there is still a market out there, it's WAAAAYY TOO SMALL to justify, especially in a $10 billion dollar industry. So I don't think we'll be seeing that many bona fide adventure games being pimped left and right these days by the media and the big publishers like EA and LucasArts.

What you guys think?

[samIamsad]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

What you guys think?

Pretty much what Ken Williams said over here.

There is a HUGE market for storytelling on a computer. There is NOT a huge market for games that look like games currently on the market.

*SNIP*

If I were developing a storytelling game today, I would focus on the AI side of things. The graphics need to be good—but, the emphasis needs to be on the “suspension of disbelief.” You need to convince the player that the world is real, and that they can make a difference. Too often it just feels like they are trying to solve a graphic puzzle. Focus on the story, the plot, and the characters.

And, huge generalizations like "the young ones are all into trigger-happy games" are dumb anyway. Talk with someone about games like Mafia, Gothic, Baldur's Gate II, Silent Hill, Vampire Bloodlines and the like, and the first thing he/she'll mention is how great the story in those games was and how amazing and exciting it was to experience it.

Storytelling is the oldest entertainment medium. Telling a story on a computer is no different than telling it in a book, song, poem or film.* A well-told story always finds an audience. Adventure games that focus on the story WILL win. That said, designers need to use the power of today’s computers to bring more depth to the story, and NEVER forget my 7 second rule: attention spans are short in an interactive world. If it takes more than 7 seconds to do anything, you’ve lost your audience.

* Huh!??

[NikolasFigaro]

Very nice and spheric statement there.
Although I agree on most topics, but I refuse to accept that the adventure genre is a constantly shrinking and static genre. There are good ideas, but no one takes the risk to materialize them. And do you truly believe that adventures have no commercial potential (or cant have)? If that is true how did Myst sell about 20 million copies (if I'm correct), a number only a handful of games has achieved? Yes, I agree that major publishers focus on more potential genres (as sports, FPS etc). But is it only about POTENTIAL sales? What do the true numbers show? If its a mediocre game (which is most possible), no matter the hype, it just isn't gonna sell. Yeah, the standards of modern gamers have changed a bit, but the gamers sure aren't stupid, and they sure aren't going to continue paying for short, average games anymore. So is it wiser for a publisher to invest in another FPS or RTS, which is the same as a hundred other titles, just because ONE or TWO of them sell a bit, or is it wiser to invest into something different, new and innovative?
I mean, can't developers and publishers learn from the past? There have been changes, but you just cant neglect your history and the connection you have established with your customers. For example, try this: Find a friend of yours, who has been playing games for the past 10 years at least. Ask him what is his all time favorite game. No matter what he prefers today, I bet that he'll say an adventure game 8 times out of ten. There are very few games from other genres (that count thousands of games) that can compete with adventures. And I am someone who plays all the type of games (sports, RTS, FPS etc), but adventures fulfill me the most.

[nrvllrgrs]

Truthfully, I really don't mind that adventure gaming is a niche market in America. When you mention that you are an adventure gamer and their response is "...So Tomb Raider.", one can just end the conversation there. Or you can try to explain to them exactly what an adventure game is now (even though nobody actually knows).

In addition, because adventure games are such a niche market, there is a greater amount of amateur products with extraordiary content, and those games that are professionally produced are going to be good (at least on some level). It's nice getting a new game for around $20-30 instead of my friends' RPGs and FPSs at $50+.