[Fien]

Very nice list!

I agree with Samnmax: I've seen most games you list as "extremely rare" on ebay or elsewhere.

UFO's aka Gnap can be found on German ebay for only a few bucks. The game is the original English one and plays from disk. Manual and installation in German. No box. Not interesting from the collector's point of view, but people who just want to play UFO's can find it easily.

Other rare games that are not rare on German ebay: Synnergist and Touche. Both have English voices and German subtitles/boxes.

There's an online black-and-white playable version of Riddle of the Maze. The review at Four Fat Chicks has a link: http://archives.obs-us.com/obs/engli...lt/books/maze/
I prefer the book, but that's just me.

A.D. 2044 (Polish version appears occasionally - Only seen two English ones in the last two years)

One of those two must have been mine. Sold one on American ebay.

Gadget : Invention, Travel and Adventure (seldom seen boxed)

I was looking for a boxed copy in mint condition and found two within two or three weeks.

Yellow Brick Road is rare, but you can sometimes find it in an obscure category for children.

Clay Agent and Clay Dreams are only available in Russian.

The Case Of The Cautious Condor is not all that rare. I once found 3 copies in 2 weeks time. It's not much in demand either.

I recently bought the boxed floppy version of Fascination for $10. The CD version (different box) is more rare.

Louis Cat Orze : The Mystery Of The Queen's Necklace. Not much in demand. Is it really rare?

Hound Of The Baskervilles. Bought it on German ebay for a few bucks. When I'd finished it, I tried to sell it on American ebay twice. Nobody was interested! Later sold it privately.

I've seen several Bud Tuckers, Zeddas, Night Cafes, Night Traps, Jack the Rippers (1994) and Ecoquests 2 on ebay.

Mode: the original boxed version is hard to find but developer Jeff Green sells the game in JC from his website. Midnight Stranger by the same developer should be mentioned as well.

[SirDave]

Originally Posted by Fienepien

Very nice list!

I agree with Samnmax: I've seen most games you list as "extremely rare" on ebay or elsewhere.

[re: Gadget: Invention, Travel & Adventure] I was looking for a boxed copy in mint condition and found two within two or three weeks.

Well, the ebay you're looking at must be different than the ebay I look at. Plus, 'elsewhere' isn't very specific. Plus, the implication that one can just look around & find the original Gadget in 2 or 3 weeks in a mint boxed condition is just not realistic; perhaps you were especially lucky that month! And while I'm at it, SamNMax's statement that 'considering that I've seen every game listed in this thread on the site at one time or another' is not helpful either.

When it comes to collecting rare adventure games, talk is cheap; actually acquiring the games is a whole different thing altogether. I've been doing it for several years and although from time to time rare games will turn up on Ebay, that's hardly the point. First, some of the listed very rare games will not be seen for months at a time on Ebay if at all. Plus, you have to be lucky enough to happen to see them on Ebay when they are there. Plus, you have to be the winning bidder, not to mention having the bucks to outbid everyone else.

So, anyone planning to collect the games listed as very rare should not be misled by misleading statements. But don't take my word for it- make believe you're a collector and start watching Ebay or other sources and see how long it takes you to find some of these games!

[Jacques l'aliéné]

Originally Posted by SirDave

Well, the ebay you're looking at must be different than the ebay I look at. Plus, 'elsewhere' isn't very specific. Plus, the implication that one can just look around & find the original Gadget in 2 or 3 weeks in a mint boxed condition is just not realistic; perhaps you were especially lucky that month! And while I'm at it, SamNMax's statement that 'considering that I've seen every game listed in this thread on the site at one time or another' is not helpful either.

When it comes to collecting rare adventure games, talk is cheap; actually acquiring the games is a whole different thing altogether. I've been doing it for several years and although from time to time rare games will turn up on Ebay, that's hardly the point. First, some of the listed very rare games will not be seen for months at a time on Ebay if at all. Plus, you have to be lucky enough to happen to see them on Ebay when they are there. Plus, you have to be the winning bidder, not to mention having the bucks to outbid everyone else.

So, anyone planning to collect the games listed as very rare should not be misled by misleading statements. But don't take my word for it- make believe you're a collector and start watching Ebay or other sources and see how long it takes you to find some of these games!

I completely agree, SirDave. If a game occurs a just a few times on eBay, and hardly ever anywhere else, I believe that it is scarce enough to depict as being an extremely hard game to find. Especially to someone who asks a question about how to lay their hands on scarce games without having to sit shot-gun, patrolling auction sites day and night for eternity. After all, this list was intended as a helpful guide to those who wish to start, or add to, their collection of English version, PC games, and not meant to start a disagreement as to what is 'rare' and what is not. Usman asked the original question and I chose to interpret it in the way I did. Value is, as we all know, very subjective. Cr@p games can go for $$$$, but few people will compete for them. 'Grackon's Curse' could be categorised such (again subjective as to what is cr@p - I thought it was).

In reference to fienepien's comments, I don't think Anglo-German versions count as complete English versions, and were not the focus of my (I believe), informative list. I did explain that I was listing English versions, although information regarding fully multi-language versions (Multi-language game, box and manual), certainly helps. I mentioned, at random, a few games that exist as dual-language games (such as the Anglo-German 'Duckman'. But that has a German-only box and German-only manual). I'm fully aware of the many that exist in addition, such as 'Gnap', 'Touche', 'Synnergist', but to have described all in such detail would have added far more to my posting than my typing energy could have coped with. This list was written with the collector-player in mind, which is why I said at the start that many of the games were rare and some were 'bad games' and rare. I concentrated on all-English versions, unless none were available (For example, 'Kama Sutra, 'Hollywood Monsters').

'Yellow Brick Road' is extremely rare (I have one), and both versions of 'A.D. 2044' are, also, extremely seldomly seen (again, I have both versions - insatiable me !). I'm afraid that, by your inference, Fienepien, that a game isn't extremely rare if it occurs a couple of times on eBay, this would mean that, because 'Grackon's Curse' occurred twice on eBay, from the same seller, in the same week, it is NOT extremely rare. 99.9% of collector's would scoff at such a suggestion.

The old chestnut. What is 'rare' ? . . appears to be the focus of some dispute here. It often is. To me, if 'Night Trap' appears on eBay just a few times in a year and reaches a price which is exorbitant by many people's standards, it attains a status of rare and hard to obtain. The same goes for 'Ecoquest 2', 'Zeddas', 'Bud Tucker' (which is very, very seldomly seen English and boxed, or even unboxed), 'Night Cafe', GameTeks original 'Jack The Ripper', etc..

Also, what does 'in demand' have anything to do with it ? 'Louis Cat Orze' (especially boxed), is extremely hard to find, as is 'Case Of The Cautious Condor', 'Murder Makes Strange Deadfellows' and 'Hound Of The Baskervilles'. I'm fully aware, also, that these games can be downloaded from a particular vintage game website, plus other sources.

However, all is not negative. Thankyou, fienepien, for your helpful comments regarding 'Mode', 'Midnight Stranger' (I realise, and mentioned, that I missed some out - 'Club Dead', for instance), 'Clay Dreams' and 'Clay Agent' (I suspected so). What about 'GAG 2' and 'Case Closed' - do English versions exist ?

Please, folks, don't think I'm being a downer. All helpful comments will be helpful to all. But, argumentative comments, regarding what is, or isn't rare, will achieve little, other than provide a distraction from the main thrust of my original reference list, and would only serve to confuse someone new to collecting these (mostly), great games. Can't we talk about what's rare, and what's not, somewhere else please ? Interpretation is very subjective, you know.

Thanks again.

[Fairygdmther]

Last year after I got my tax refund check, I set out to find many old games on eBay. For two months + I was on eBay every day for 20-30 min to see what was ending in the next 24 hours, that I could afford and that I really wanted. Some were not so rare, some were pretty hard to find. I got 65+ games in that time, with only two costing me over $15 including shipping. I didn't try to get boxed copies, which would have cost me much more.

I have to agree with Sir Dave that it is NOT easy to do, and requires a concerted effort to find certain games. I just last week got Liath, after trying for a year and a half. Reah, I gave up and bought from Amazon at $26+, though I've seen it for over $120.

FGM-Lyn

[Fien]

I think your list is very informative, and I said so. I'm very surprised that both SirDave and you seem to think I'm starting a disagreement about what is rare and what is not, that was not my intention. Discussing adventures is great, but exchanging info about availability, technical problems, etcetera is an important reason for me to read forums. Like you, I was only trying to be helpful! For instance, someone said "find UFO's, it's a nice game" and I told them where they can find it for just a few dollars. Many people don't know that and it didn't occur to me to post the info separately, because I thought the thread was about rare games in general, not only from the collectors pov.

I'm afraid that, by your inference, Fienepien, that a game isn't extremely rare if it occurs a couple of times on eBay, this would mean that, because 'Grackon's Curse' occurred twice on eBay, from the same seller, in the same week, it is NOT extremely rare. 99.9% of collector's would scoff at such a suggestion.

Again, I did NOT want to imply that the games on your list are not rare. They are, with one or two exceptions (Riana Rouge is still available at the original website and I've seen it many times on ebay.) I'm not disputing that at all. But it is also true that I have seem most of them on ebay and elsewhere, like gametz. Some will probably be elusive for ever, such as the blob job and new robinson. But believe it or not, my message was actually meant to be positive: look on the bright side, it can be done. Yes, maybe I was lucky to find 3 condors in 2 weeks. Other people may get lucky too! And if a collector has set his heart on a boxed copy of the original Gadget, he will find one. There are two right now on gametz and they have been there for some time.
A boxed Alice is now on ebay. Was on gametz *for ages*.

Also, what does 'in demand' have anything to do with it ? 'Louis Cat Orze' (especially boxed), is extremely hard to find, as is 'Case Of The Cautious Condor', 'Murder Makes Strange Deadfellows' and 'Hound Of The Baskervilles'.

If a game is rare but not much in demand, the price will be low. I think that's very relevant for many non-collectors here, who just want to play a game, don't much care about boxes and don't want to spend big bucks. Again, I was trying to be helpful.

If a game is rare and in high demand, it will be harder to spot on ebay because lots of collectors have no qualms and will approach the seller in private. Game disappears from ebay. Happens all the time. It used to make me furious, very unfair. Some people say it's even getting worse, and they may be right, but I can't say I've noticed it myself. Probably because my Wanted List has is now very short.

What about 'GAG 2' and 'Case Closed' - do English versions exist ?

Gag 2 is in Russian. No English version. Don't know about Case Closed.

I'm sorry my post has annoyed you and SirDave. I will not comment on your list again or at the very least make sure that my comments are only related to a particular game and not your list or the collector's pov.

[Fien]

Originally Posted by Fairygdmther

I just last week got Liath, after trying for a year and a half. Reah, I gave up and bought from Amazon at $26+, though I've seen it for over $120.

Sorry, I really have to disagree with you on Liath and Reah. We Dutchies were flooded with Reahs and Liaths two years ago, when they discovered an abandoned warehouse or something. The first ones went for big bucks on ebay, but I've seen many, many unsold Liaths.

[UPtimist]

Originally Posted by Manhunter71

No-one has mentioned the "Gabriel Knight Mysteries Ltd Ed Box Set" - this includes GK1 + 2 + soundtrack and also the "Sins of the Fathers" original novel.
This an amazing set which is very rarely found for sale as a complete set!

Yeah, and once again I have to dwell on this: my friend bought it a few years back for about 2€ (in a "supermarket" (not nearly as big as the American versions, but rather large in Finnish scale))... (though it was in quite rough condition)

[Fairygdmther]

Originally Posted by Fienepien

Sorry, I really have to disagree with you on Liath and Reah. We Dutchies were flooded with Reahs and Liaths two years ago, when they discovered an abandoned warehouse or something. The first ones went for big bucks on ebay, but I've seen many, many unsold Liaths.

Fienepien - two years ago I hadn't started to look for them, but once I did, I found them only occasionally and both very expensive. One Liath I had bid on went up to $85 - way beyond my range. Maybe most of the "found" ones were sold in Europe - I sure didn't see many here in the US. Perhaps as Sir Dave said - you have to be lucky and be at the right place at the right time.

FGM-Lyn

[Jacques l'aliéné]

I'm sure that all our chatter will help someone along the way, whether we disagree or not. I hope so, anyway.

[Manhunter71]

Originally Posted by UPtimist

Yeah, and once again I have to dwell on this: my friend bought it a few years back for about 2€ (in a "supermarket" (not nearly as big as the American versions, but rather large in Finnish scale))... (though it was in quite rough condition)

I have to say, I think your friend was very lucky - as was I when I found this going cheap at a computer game stall in my local market!
I am pretty sure these are quite isolated incidents as I have never seen it for sale in the used section of any game stores here in the UK.
Plus, searching ebay for the past few months hasn't shown any available at reasonable prices!

[SirDave]

Originally Posted by Fienepien

I think your list is very informative, and I said so. I'm very surprised that both SirDave and you seem to think I'm starting a disagreement about what is rare and what is not, that was not my intention. Discussing adventures is great, but exchanging info about availability, technical problems, etcetera is an important reason for me to read forums. Like you, I was only trying to be helpful!

I'm sorry my post has annoyed you and SirDave. I will not comment on your list again or at the very least make sure that my comments are only related to a particular game and not your list or the collector's pov.

NP. I hope you'll continue to post about your experience with rare games, because you already gave some interesting information. Re-reading your original post I can see how it might be interpreted in the way you say above that you intended. The problem really started with the statement: I agree with Samnmax: I've seen most games you list as "extremely rare" on ebay or elsewhere.

Not being specific about some of these subjects can drive people like me crazy who have been out there in the AG-collector trenches. I ran into a similiar conversation recently with someone who sort-of non-chalantly let it drop that he had gotten Under A Killing Moon to 'run' directly under WinXP. Well, that sort of set me off because I spent many an hour trying to subdue UAKM on WinXP and failed! (Remember, we're talking directly under WinXP, not Dosbox and/or VDMSound). It turned out he'd gotten some introductory screens up but no sound & hadn't played the game all the way thru without crashing. As it turned out, he meant well, but it wasn't helpful to people who thought they could easily fire up UAKM under WinXP.

Anyway, one has to be patient collecting AGs and even though rare games do turn up on Ebay occasionally, you still have to be prepared to pay big money for games that are legitimately known to be rare. I would also say that it takes a little time to distinguish truly rare games from games that sellers on Ebay say are rare. At any given time, games will be listed as Rare that are fare from it. Also, remember that collectors usually want boxed games; I don't buy jewel-case games anymore- and a boxed game can go for as much as 3-4x the price of a jewel-case-only game. Make sure you know the difference before you buy.

Incidentally, Fienepien was absolutely right about Reah & Liath. I will, groan!, admit that I was suckered into paying over twice as much for Reah as you can get it now (and I overpaid for Liath) about 2 years ago afterwhich it did seem as though someone came across a warehouse full of them!

[Fien]

Originally Posted by SirDave

The problem really started with the statement: I agree with Samnmax: I've seen most games you list as "extremely rare" on ebay or elsewhere.

I was simply telling you about my experience, in response to the statement "...some of which I have I have never YET seen on ebay".

Not being specific about some of these subjects can drive people like me crazy who have been out there in the AG-collector trenches.

I feel I was giving very specific, concrete information, which you can check out.

a similiar conversation recently with someone who sort-of non-chalantly let it drop that he had gotten Under A Killing Moon to 'run' directly under WinXP.

Ah, nice analogy, SirDave. I could give you a detailed explanation how to get UAKM working under Win98. Which would be confusing if you were expecting instructions for running it in XP.

I agree with everything else you said!

[Fien]

Originally Posted by Fairygdmther

Fienepien - two years ago I hadn't started to look for them, but once I did, I found them only occasionally and both very expensive. One Liath I had bid on went up to $85 - way beyond my range. Maybe most of the "found" ones were sold in Europe - I sure didn't see many here in the US.

If you don't want to spend much money, it sometimes pays to look for specific titles in non-American ebays. Games that are cheap in one country, may be expensive elsewhere. Of course shipping will be higher.

[SirDave]

Originally Posted by Fienepien

Ah, nice analogy, SirDave. I could give you a detailed explanation how to get UAKM working under Win98. Which would be confusing if you were expecting instructions for running it in XP.

Wouldn't be confusing, but would be unnecessary since I've had UAKM running under Win98 since Win98 came out.

[hagstrumpa]

Thank you Jacques l'aliéné for the extensive lists! They are great. I just want to add a few comments on your list of "Extremely rare" titles.
A few of these games are Swedish. Agharta: Hollow Earth is very common in bargain bins over here (swe/eng version). Mystery of Greveholm 2 is easy to find in Swedish, more difficult in english, but not impossible. If I am not misinformed Gilbert was not released in any other language than Swedish. (If it is this Gilbert you refer to) That game is easy to find.

[Manhunter71]

Originally Posted by Jacques l'aliéné

Manhunter, I don't consider free downloads (whether legal ones, or not), as part of the discussion. I thought the discussion referred to hard copies of games. That's what I was talking about at any rate. Apologies if I've misunderstood.

Hi, I don't mean to be awkward or argumentative, but I don't think I mentioned anything about free downloads - I agree with you totally, they shouldn't be considered at all

[Manhunter71]

Originally Posted by SirDave

At any given time, games will be listed as Rare that are fare from it.

Aaarrgh!!

This is something that really annoys me about ebay and it happens on a regular basis!!
Sellers offer games for sale and describe them as "rare" or "deleted" or "banned", when in fact the majority of these games can be found for sale at your local games store!

I have had plenty of arguments with ebay sellers, because whenever I see a game listed as rare when it is actually freely available I feel I have to question them about this!!

Some of them have been quite abusive when I question them

It just winds me up because they must know the game they are selling isn't rare

[Jacques l'aliéné]

Originally Posted by Manhunter71

Hi, I don't mean to be awkward or argumentative, but I don't think I mentioned anything about free downloads - I agree with you totally, they shouldn't be considered at all

No problem and sorry if I misunderstood. I thought that was what you meant when you wrote : "Quite a few of the games you have mentioned here are available as free downloads -

I have got Kyrandia, the Leisure Suit Larry series, and the Kings Quest Collection as free downloads, so obviously they can't be that rare?"

[Manhunter71]

Originally Posted by Jacques l'aliéné

No problem and sorry if I misunderstood. I thought that was what you meant when you wrote : "Quite a few of the games you have mentioned here are available as free downloads -

I have got Kyrandia, the Leisure Suit Larry series, and the Kings Quest Collection as free downloads, so obviously they can't be that rare?"

I've got all those games too as free downloads - at the moment I'm working my way through the LSL games - they are all great fun and bring back great memories!!!

[Jacques l'aliéné]

Yep ! We're working our way through the King's Quests. They're superb too !