Abandonware -legal Or Not-?
 

Excuse my "ignorance" about this...but is abandonware legal?...
I've just visited some pages that say it isn't illegal...and that they don't harm any companies because they are not selling those games anymore (including merchandising staff)...It was a page with games such as Space Quest VI (1995) in HTTP downloads...
In case it's illegal do you think they do harm the companies by puttiing games like Monkey Island I or some Sierra Clasics?...I really don't know...I just have my original copies from most of the games they put there though.

I couldn't find any article or thread here >_<
Bye! and thanks in advance...

The reality is it probably doesn't really harm most of those companies but it still is in fact illegal unless the person or corporate entity in possession of the copyright has allowed it. You'll have to make your own moral judgment call but on these forums linking to or providing abandonware is not allowed.

Yep, illegal all the way.
Not that it makes a lot of sense, if you ask me.

OK Got it...I didn't post the links because of the rules..but as a "freaky" adventurer I don't think ABANDONWARE harms companies...Is a way to honor their past works...because if you are lucky enough to get the originals, the prices are VERY low...So it's not a lazy way to get them...sometimes it's the only way, and maybe without the internet, some of them would have been forgotten.
I do agree with the rlz of Adventure Gamers though...Because is a serious page and known all around the globe.

Once Again: excuse my english (I'll put it in my signature xD)

Bye.

Abandonware is completely illegal in most places. However, it by definition does not harm the companies. Of course, it's pretty common to label titles Abandonware even when they are not (Monkey Island 1 is available in LucasArts online store I think).

And don't apologize about your English, it's excellent. Knowing a foreign language is never something to apologize for.

Just a quick translation of the phrase "It doesn't hurt the companies (often)" for the folks who're reading it literally instead of legally: That means that you're unlikely to get sued over it. But it's always better to be safe than sorry.

I think the companies who go to the trouble of sending lawyers to abandonware sites to defend their copyrights, such as Vivendi, would disagree. What do you mean "by definition"? Where are you seeing a definition of abandonware that says "games available for download as long as it doesn't hurt the copyright holder"? And how would that be enforced?

Easy for us to say "it's not fair, I want to play that old game, so copyright laws are stupid." As a working writer who depends on the right to own what I create (what a concept!) and continue trying to make make money off of it for as long as I want to*, I don't exactly feel the same way. Neither did Metallica. :D

*For the next 80 years, or whatever the timeframe is.

there's a good feature on gamespot about abandonware... sorry but i havent got a link, but if you go to www.gamespot.com/all/features.html then you should be able to find it in the list.

Like for most illegal things, it's more a question of your own morals. Especially considering the odds of going to jail for playing an Infocom game downloaded on the net :)

Maybe it hurts the companies, but it doesn't hurt the creative people.
I'd like to know 10 game developers, that:
1) still benefit more than 10 years after from their products
2) are against their games being downloaded by fans

Maybe they exist, but I promise I won't download and play their games :)
(Of course if Ron G. and Tim S. (anonimity preserved) were of those, I would be very sad, even though I own all the originals)

Argh don't tell me about them.
Now this is rock'n'roll attitude, sueing kids who copy their albums. These assholes make me sick.
If anybody sees them in a gig, just throw a can of beer in their face for me.
:devil:

I don't think the comparison is fair.
Books are still on sale, or still can be found in library, decades after they're been written.
It's not the same with games. Sometimes they're just not sold anymore.
In these cases, how can downloading it harm anyone? Especially since every big abandonware site out there clearly states that games will be removed if the copyright holder complains.
Also, if it weren't for abandonware, how could we play these games? I know there's E-Bay, but I don't see how buying on E-Bay supports game developpers anyway.

Plain right. Especially when most developpers/publishers would dream of locked licenses you can't resell, and of forbidding game renting.

Exactly!

And if you want to play Zork 1, 2 or 3 the odds are even better! (since they're free to download).
Abandonware will probably never be legal, but it works OK now. If developer/publisher says they don't support it, their games won't be available for download anymore. Of course, it would be nice that, when they move their games from abandonware sites, they provide links to online shops where you can actually buy the game (which often isn't the case). Browsing e-bay is not my preffered choice of acquiring games.

And don't forget HGTTG that is playable online too :)

I'd say this is a case where the law is there to prevent abuse, but everybody (copyright holders and abandonwarers) is reasonable and it goes well :)

Abandonware is such a tough topic. One hates to see some of these classic games languish in limbo, forever denying others the chance to play them. Perhaps some enterpsiting group should purchase the rights to ditribute these no longer supported games from these companies. Not the intellectual properties themselves, just the old no longer supported or sold games. Seems that would be easiest.

Well there are companies like Sold Out Software who do that (they released BS1 & 2 for example), but I don't think any of those companies see the potential of selling IFs or old CGA/EGA/VGA games. And I can't blame them. I woudln't either.

People assume that these games are never going to be profitable again, so why shouldn't we be able to download them? But they *could* be profitable again. Look at the Turner Network project Fairygdmther linked to yesterday -- something like that DEPENDS on games not being available for free download. No one's going to pay for a service to play old games when they could (illegally) do so for free. These big companies, like Vivendi, wouldn't hold on to the copyrights if they didn't think they were worth something. And we may not like it, but corporations are under no obligation to throw away their assets just because fans demand it. Every time this comes up, I'm a little surprised by the sense of entitlement so many gamers seem to feel about these old games. I love the oldies as much as anyone else, but I don't feel like the companies that made them (or the companies that own the copyrights now) OWE me anything, just because I'm a fan.

As for the comparison between games and books, it's not true that books stay available indefinitely. A lot go out of print, and then you run into the same problem you do with old games -- they're very expensive to buy, and it's illegal (but maybe not immoral?) to photocopy them. But no matter what the medium, consumers don't get to decide what's illegal and what's not based on their individual wants. Copyright laws are in place for a reason... to protect the people involved with something's creation.

I can't give you a list of game developers who support or don't support abandonware (but maybe some of the devs who frequent this forum will weigh in). What I can say, from a writer's perspective, is that people who create things make decisions and compromises when it comes to getting their creations published. A writer may need to decide between giving copyrights to a large publishing house (and losing control of them) or retaining them but not getting as nice of a publishing deal. That's something every writer needs to decide for him or herself, and in a perfect world, a smart writer won't sign away his or her rights for the momentary excitement of seeing their name in print. But the world of publishing is hardly perfect, and unfortunately, people sign their rights away all the time. :(

I imagine the same struggles exist for game developers. There are creators who have retained the rights to their games, or who have worked out deals with the copyright holders. And there are others who haven't, but they knew when they were working on the game (and working FOR a particular company) that this would be the case. For fans to consistently ignore the companies who own the copyrights -- companies that, in many cases, supplied a lot of money and resources to get those games made -- is ignorant and counter-productive. Pissed off that Vivendi and LucasArts own copyrights to the games you want to play? Think of it this way: if the companies who now own the copyrights hadn't put up their money and staff in the first place, those games wouldn't exist at all. Don't tell me that Ron Gilbert or Tim Schafer or Jane Jensen could have achieved the same things as one person alone in a garage. The companies get to retain something for the risk that they took -- the game's copyright, to do with it what they want.

To me, there are two options for old games. Let people download them for free and generations upon generations can play them and enjoy them, or let them fade out of existence until everyone just forgets about them.

And Its Free!!

See I think the way these abandonware sites try to make themeselves out to be the good guys, when they are in fact breaking the law is the problem. If the people just put tons of pressure on the companies, we might have a better chance of getting these download legally and hence avoiding any ethical quandries. I am a ttoaly proponent of making these games available to future generations of gamers, just think perhaps doing it legally is the way to go.