03-19-2005, 05:35 PM | #1 |
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GameSpot on storytelling
I'm not sure if this should technically be in the Adventure forum. Move it if you please...
Gamespot is running a feature on storytelling in games. Greg Kasavin has spoken with five of the game development world's greatest storytellers and written up a very nice feature. The storytellers include adventure game heavy weights Tim Schafer and Ragnar Tørnquist. Here's the link: http://www.gamespot.com/features/612..._topslot_click |
03-19-2005, 07:30 PM | #2 |
merely human
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Thanks, Twelve. I posted it as news. Interesting and informative read.
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03-19-2005, 07:47 PM | #3 | ||
merely human
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Aw CRAP!! This is soooo true:
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03-20-2005, 03:12 AM | #4 |
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Do you know what's funny? That these people have to say this. Truth is, if you're dealing with storytelling in any media then don't make a hash job of it. It's sad that there's so few great storytellers in gaming when that's really the main thing that people remember and makes an emotional impact whiilst playing. Everyones best moments evolve around stunning plot points, and very rarely do you hear gamers relay their experiences "getting that difficult headshot"!
A game doesn't have to have a story. That's true. But if it's half-assed then they shouldn't bother... surely?
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03-20-2005, 04:28 AM | #5 |
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It was an enjoyable read and a nice way of killing 30 minutes of Sunday afternoon, but essentially, everything they talked about has been covered times and times before. It did however make me like Tim Schafer even more. He likes Repo Man, for heaven's sake, w00t!! And I'm sad to say I completely agree with him on behalf of general quality of stories in games. No game story has ever even come close to blowing me away. Ever.
Yet. Well, one can always hope.
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03-20-2005, 08:21 AM | #6 | ||
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03-20-2005, 09:29 AM | #7 | |
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03-20-2005, 01:47 PM | #8 |
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I didn't say they're not better than most Hollywood films these days. So what? Most Hollywood films' stories don't blow me away either.
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03-20-2005, 02:55 PM | #9 | |
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03-20-2005, 03:54 PM | #10 | |
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Emotion stays with you for far longer. What do you mean by "emergent story events", btw? I don't think there's really such thing unless those events play directly into a specific plot.
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03-20-2005, 04:37 PM | #11 | |||
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I had killed off a couple of lions and proceeded to some kind of burial chamber. Then I hear roars back in the direction I was coming from. Had I missed one? I better backtrack and make sure.That's a story moment that emerged from the game itself, without any scripted plot. They occur in all kinds of games (on or off the computer). People even tell stories of exciting chess matches! (In fact, the chess column of a good newspaper is surprisingly entertaining reading, even if you don't play chess.)
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03-20-2005, 05:04 PM | #12 | |
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They're great "moments" - but "story" is too strong a word. They don't impact on the plot in any way. It'd be nice to see a game that does that - but I'd imagine freeform plots are a nightmare to even start addressing! In a sense, something like The Last Express does it, but they're specifically written moments that play to entertain or stress the emotions. It's not quite the same thing.
"Emergent storytelling" sounds to me more like a buzzword to describe non-scripted events. They play well, they can be repeated to someone as a very basic story, but they don't contain any true semblance of plot. Emotion is a very specific thing to deal with. In Planetside one of my best memories was staging a tower defensive, being swooped by various flying craft - "Reavers" - and taking them out one by one with my squad, pushing them back towards their base. I leapt out of the building, went down into a ridge and nearly had my head knocked off by an enemy tank which flew over my head at speed. A fantastic moment. But not really a true story! Then again, Lucas once said something like strangling a cat can engage an audience (can't remember the quote, might even have been Spielberg!) - so what do I know? edit - Lucas! Quote:
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03-20-2005, 06:20 PM | #13 | |
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"Emergent story" and "emergent [any other gaming term]" have been extremely buzzy buzzwords in the games industry for a while now, sorry to say. I don't know where I stand on the "gamers tell the story" thing. People really really like to say that gamers tell their own story in a game - it was mentioned in a very large percentage of the panels and sessions I attended at this year's GDC - but I really don't know if it's true. Or, if it is true, I don't know if gamers really see it that way. "Whoa I totally took my motorcycle off a jump and the cop landed in the water" is an awesome thing to recount to your friend (especially if s/he too plays the game and knows what you're talking about), but I think gamers equate that with "cool thing I did" more than "a story." People at my old job who played Metal Gear Solid 3 recounted to each other the insanity of the game's predetermined plot as they worked through it - it occupied a decent part of the daily conversation during the days after the game first came out. Not once did I hear either of them recounting a time they took out a guard. One time when I asked how the gameplay worked they said that it was cool that you snuck around and stuff, but they were far more interested in the fact that you could kill off a character who appeared in one of the earlier games (which are set farther in the future from MGS3) and create a time paradox by breaking continuity, or how the history and actions of the character they were playing related to the Snake fellow you play in MGS1 and 2. And these guys were pretty casual gamers (who happened to enjoy the MGS series). So that is a very wishy washy way of saying that I am dubious of people saying that emergent storytelling (at least in a large scale sense) is the future of interactive storytelling. I don't know if gamers really want that. It makes me wonder how many people who say that have really ever played a good interactive story that's "on rails," because to me there is a huge very tangible difference between playing an interactive story with a set plot and watching a film with a set plot. I know I go back to this time and again, but Grim Fandango, as it's assembled in its PC game form, would adapt really poorly to film, in my opinion. That game has a tangible emotional impact on many people who play it because, I think, they feel like they've taken this huge journey along with the characters, helping them along every step of the way. As a film, you'd merely be watching what was happening with no involvement, and therefore, probably a lot less emotional attachment. Erm what I'm trying to say is that things like Grim Fandango, due to being interactive even if their story is on rails, manage to tell a story in a different way than you can in a linear medium - it has different impacts on the player than it would if they were merely a viewer. There is something to be said for that, and I'm sure people adknowledge that, even the ones who say "the gamer tells the story," but it's one of those things that to me seems like one of those facts that I take for granted but maybe I'm not so sure that everyone does, when talking about storytelling in games. Like, maybe it was taken for granted for so long that it's been forgotten about. It's a very simple, possibly stupid example, but I don't think people consider it (or at least don't give that matter enough weight) when they say that the only good interactive story is an emergent one.
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03-20-2005, 06:23 PM | #14 | |
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03-20-2005, 06:37 PM | #15 |
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Maybe in general, but I think in the specific case of a filmic Grim Fandango there would be less. When Glottis rips his heart out, as an audience member, I doubt you'd experience frustration. As Manny and the ticketholders reach the temple gate I don't think you'd feel the same gaping "...they've traveled so long..." feeling in your chest...
In general
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03-20-2005, 06:49 PM | #16 |
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I prefer stories in games. I like games like warcraft 3 and freedom force, and of course adventures, for the story they offer. Ofcourse gameplay is an important aspect too, but without a story, I really don't see a point in finishing a game. I mean launching Fifa and playing a couple of soccer matches is fun, or having a few blasts in multi-player, but it's not something that would keep me hooked for consecutive hours. Usually I keep playing to find out what's next. And no matter how pre-set the story is, participating in the game to unfold the story has this distinct sense of achievement that I don't get in watching a movie.
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03-20-2005, 07:23 PM | #17 | |
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There are other ways of wanting to "find out what's next" in a game that have nothing to do with story. Wanting to explore the environment, for example, to see if there are any surprising new landscapes over the hill or new rooms around the corner. But I think people have different ideas of what constitutes a "story." I've read forums where people think the exploration you do in Tomb Raider games is a story. To me, story and exploration are entirely different things. One thing that article didn't do was ask the interviewees what they thought constituted a story. Is an "emergent story" really a story? Is setting up a scenario where the gamer can "write their own story" the same as telling a story? The article specifically mentioned "storytelling," which doesn't sound like the same thing as a "write your own story" to me. |
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03-20-2005, 07:37 PM | #18 | |
The Dartmaster
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Feeling a sense of achievement as you uncover more of the story in a game is in no way related to wanting "to know what happens next in a movie." Good job of creating something to get all reactionary about though Keeps the ol' Internet turning. |
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03-20-2005, 07:38 PM | #19 |
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Jake, you're too fast this evening. That's exactly what I was gonna type to clarify it to crabapple.
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03-20-2005, 07:39 PM | #20 |
The Dartmaster
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Its all about the timing.
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