[SakSquash]

So here I am, sitting at work, a pointless college job, and I thinks to myself "Self? Adventure games have a bad rep for having absolutely zero replay value, wouldn't it be great if there was some way to fuse together the non-linearness of games like Elder Scrolls 3 and Grand Theft Auto 3 with adventure games?"

"Hell yeah" I said to myself. "But how can it be done?"


How Indeed...

[Steve Ince]

The thing about the games you mention is that they rely on an awful lot of "generic" gameplay, something that adventures are not renowned for. As soon as you start to put generic gameplay into adventures the fans say things like, "We hate those stupid box puzzles."

[SakSquash]

Originally Posted by Steve Ince

The thing about the games you mention is that they rely on an awful lot of "generic" gameplay, something that adventures are not renowned for. As soon as you start to put generic gameplay into adventures the fans say things like, "We hate those stupid box puzzles."

What if there was a game set in...say...1700's in Europe or America and you're a detective in a small town. The game could let you freely ride your horse around town, and there would be several crimes for you to solve that you could solve in any order you wanted with multiple ways of solving it? There could be one main case or killer, but then there would be side quests as well. Now to me, that's damn innovative.

[Steve Ince]

Originally Posted by temporaryscars

There could be one main case or killer

Then it wouldn't be open-ended. Open-ended means that there is no ending. No matter how many side quests there are, once they are completed the game ends.

What you are proposing is non-linear, not open-ended.

[SakSquash]

Originally Posted by Steve Ince

Then it wouldn't be open-ended. Open-ended means that there is no ending. No matter how many side quests there are, once they are completed the game ends.

What you are proposing is non-linear, not open-ended.

Oh yeah....consider it fixed.

[Crypto]

I believe it is possible, provided the writers are very talented. Also this would require a huge amount of alternative locations. But how non-linear would you like it to be? If you are thinking Morrowind, I guess not. But I believe maybe you have to think more in the direction of Vampire Bloodlines... Just to compare the size of the world that is...

[SakSquash]

Originally Posted by Crypto

I believe it is possible, provided the writers are very talented. Also this would require a huge amount of alternative locations. But how non-linear would you like it to be? If you are thinking Morrowind, I guess not. But I believe maybe you have to think more in the direction of Vampire Bloodlines... Just to compare the size of the world that is...

Maybe not as huge as Morrowind...I mean..that world was HUGE. I'm talking about perhaps a small town? Like a English colony in the early 1700's America? Or even a modern small town? It could have scripted events depending on what part of town you were in at a specific time, that way you could play the game more than once, and never have the same experience twice.

[Crypto]

Originally Posted by temporaryscars

Maybe not as huge as Morrowind...I mean..that world was HUGE. I'm talking about perhaps a small town? Like a English colony in the early 1700's America? Or even a modern small town? It could have scripted events depending on what part of town you were in at a specific time, that way you could play the game more than once, and never have the same experience twice.

I wonder to what extend this has ever been done before in an adventure game. Can't think of any at the moment. It must be difficult, otherwise I can't see why no-one has succeeded in it?

[bigwheel]

Originally Posted by Crypto

I wonder to what extend this has ever been done before in an adventure game. Can't think of any at the moment. It must be difficult, otherwise I can't see why no-one has succeeded in it?

They did a wonderful job of making a nonlinear adventure game out of Blade Runner. There are many ways to beat the game with multiple endings. I haven't really seen a game even remotely close since then, however.

[Crypto]

Originally Posted by bigwheel

They did a wonderful job of making a nonlinear adventure game out of Blade Runner. There are many ways to beat the game with multiple endings. I haven't really seen a game even remotely close since then, however.

I remember, it was great. Not flawless, but very close.

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by temporaryscars

The game could let you freely ride your horse around town, and there would be several crimes for you to solve that you could solve in any order you wanted with multiple ways of solving it?

Wasn't Discworld Noir like that in some ways? I haven't played it yet, but I think I read something along those lines.

Blade Runner is still my favorite adventure game, hands down. Many people disliked a lack of traditional inventory puzzles, but I think that was a touch of genius. I like to think that in 5 years or so everyone will see how much ahead of its time it was.

[Zanthia]

In third Kyrandia there were several ways to pass the first part and you ended up solving puzzles from different ways mixed up and not knowing what to do.

[Maquisard]

So you go around, solving several cases in any given order, and once you're done, you'd feel an urge to replay the game just so you could do it in a different order? hmmm... This could work only if the game had some semblance of real time, so if you tackle a certain case later in the game, rather than sooner, circumstances have changed, so that your experience of working on it again is significantly different (i.e. you can't solve it through the same procession of puzzles anymore). And by circumstances changing, I mean people respond to you differently, the perpertrators are more efficient at hiding/erasing clues, etc. The authors could even program a superior evil mastermind AI, which monitors your progress, and makes things progressively harder for you, no matter in which order you decide to tackle the cases. Or something.

[Leonard Shelby]

Originally Posted by bigwheel

They did a wonderful job of making a nonlinear adventure game out of Blade Runner. There are many ways to beat the game with multiple endings. I haven't really seen a game even remotely close since then, however.

As a huge BR s fan (my fave adventure game on PC of all time) , I have to state this is false .

In the game, u follow chapters and it s only when u ve finished one than u go to the next one and u re reaching one of the 6 different conclusions of the game .

There s little changes on each new game and u re basically following a movie/book like structure from start to end

So this game is mainly linear at a heart with some non linear elements

[Leonard Shelby]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Blade Runner is still my favorite adventure game, hands down. Many people disliked a lack of traditional inventory puzzles, but I think that was a touch of genius. I like to think that in 5 years or so everyone will see how much ahead of its time it was.

Totally agree with u

this game was one of a kind and to me all murder mysteries should be like this one .

No stupid and illogical puzzle to stuck u somewhere (well there's a maze at one moment to follow one of the replicants but it s arbitrary and more an option to go or not)

There s also a few shootings but they re totally meshing with the job of a Blade Runner which is retiring androids (or not)

All in all the game s difficulty was perfect and the main "puzzles" were the ones i m looking for on Still Life : looking for clues and locations and on pictures via the esper machine and talking and interacting with characters

[SakSquash]

Originally Posted by Mares

So you go around, solving several cases in any given order, and once you're done, you'd feel an urge to replay the game just so you could do it in a different order? hmmm... This could work only if the game had some semblance of real time, so if you tackle a certain case later in the game, rather than sooner, circumstances have changed, so that your experience of working on it again is significantly different (i.e. you can't solve it through the same procession of puzzles anymore). And by circumstances changing, I mean people respond to you differently, the perpertrators are more efficient at hiding/erasing clues, etc. The authors could even program a superior evil mastermind AI, which monitors your progress, and makes things progressively harder for you, no matter in which order you decide to tackle the cases. Or something.

No no no. You see, by being in the right part of the town at the right time, it triggers a mission and you can either decide to take it or not, sort of being in the right place at the right time. Some missions can have a time limit or not, and the ending you get could be decided on how many cases you solved and how you solved them. That sort of thing.

[crabapple]

Originally Posted by temporaryscars

No no no. You see, by being in the right part of the town at the right time, it triggers a mission and you can either decide to take it or not, sort of being in the right place at the right time. Some missions can have a time limit or not, and the ending you get could be decided on how many cases you solved and how you solved them. That sort of thing.

Sounds like a waste of the developers' time to go to the trouble of creating side quests many gamers will never see or even know existed (except for those very few who visit game forums).

[SakSquash]

Originally Posted by crabapple

Sounds like a waste of the developers' time to go to the trouble of creating side quests many gamers will never see or even know existed (except for those very few who visit game forums).

Ugh, can't you guys think for yourself? There could be a little signal or something that something is going on. Like the town could be sectioned into blocks or something and when a crime was happeneing the block on a map would flash or something.

[Ninth]

To me, AGs are somewhat similar to books. Meaning that they have to be linear to a large extent. And I can't imagine anyone doing a non-linear game that would still have enough adventure elements to be called, well, an adventure game.

[artwking4]

Originally Posted by Ninth

To me, AGs are somewhat similar to books. Meaning that they have to be linear to a large extent. And I can't imagine anyone doing a non-linear game that would still have enough adventure elements to be called, well, an adventure game.

The Quest for Glory games were pretty non-linear in my opinion. Some of the quests were optional, and many could be done in no particular order.