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There was one weird time when I was on my first year of english lessons in the third grade. I went to ask the teacher if skull means pääkallo in finnish... she was a bit amazed why did I come to ask her about such "strange" words... heh heh. Thank you Ron Gilbert for teaching me english. ;) |
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I wouldn't go overboard here--no offense, but I like some of the other games on the list too! I mean, what Carolyn Goodwin was talking about in that thread--and let's please not lose sight of that--was the success they had had at NICHE marketing. I know, I know, the idea of marketing games makes some people here want to be sick. But their point in the article was that yes, there should be some games that those gamers can play, because as those developers said, they are (at least half of them ;) ) potentially the AGers of the future. That doesn't mean that the rest of us have to put away our adult-themed games forever and only play funny games, because (though I love humor as much as the next person), that's not all there is in the world. As for kids, my personal view is that they hate being talked down to. But I don't have any, so what do I know. And also, the definition of what "talking down to them" means is different for different people . . . what is condescension? Is it when you try to be cute? Definitely. They can pick up trying too hard a mile away. Hard again to put your finger on what it is. Hm. I have no idea what the BK Kids Club is and now is not the day for me to look it up, but I have a sense of what Jake means, and I think he's probably right. :) Quote:
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From those games you listed, you completely missed the point of the thread, and, as proven by earlier bits in your post, you have no real point of reference. Almost everything in your post could be construed as correct, but only from a point of view that is completely irrellevant to this discussion. Real quick: Quote:
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Err, BacardiJim ... are you saying that all those many people who played adventure games when they were kids (like me, and clearly many others) are some kind of statistical error? Maybe you should ask around with some 18-25 year old gamers and ask what they know about adventure games. You might be surprised (or not, since you'd deny it apparently). It's beyond doubt that a bigpart of that demographic played adventure games when they were kids. Yeah, so they're not the people you necesserily hang out with, but that doesn't mean they don't exist in our shared universe. It seems to me you are once again trying to construct arguments around your personal beliefs on this issue and are, in the process, being a giant troll.
You also completely miss Jake's point by mentioning a string of "made for kids" edutainment titles that are the polar opposite of what Jake is talking about in this thread. What is your contribution to this thread? Whatever. You're not making much sense at all, and I wish you'd post more constructive material when other people are having a real conversation. |
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And I'm the troll. Hell, if either of you bothered to actually read the last half of what I said, I was, in effect, agreeing in part with Jake's original comment. I was merely questioning the underlying reasoning... from a historical (and Americentric) point of view. I freely admitted that I couldn't speak about European trends, only those in the USA. But about those, I think my experience and point of reference is possibly more informed than that of two Scandanavian youths. |
Everybody of my age knows LucasArts adventure games in Finland - at least they've tried some of them because a friend has recommended them those games. Many people born in 1985, including me, got their first PC in 1991 or 1992, around the time MI was released, and pirated copies were distributed with diskettes. Before that Amigas were very popular. And if you didn't own a PC, your friend did. Then again, Finland has always been a total tech-nerd country.
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We always had a computer in my house. This may not have been the norm (and I did grow up in an upper-middle class household), but it's shortsighted to ignore the fact that there were computers in the schools, which is where many people were first introduced to adventure games, and that even if someone didn't have a computer at their house, a friend of theirs probably did. I can think of three or four different people, at different points in my childhood, who came over *exclusively* to play adventure games. I'd go to their houses to play Nintendo (because we didn't have one); they'd come to mine to play King's Quest or 7th Guest. I'm getting off topic though. It's absolutely true that more homes have computers now than ever before. Shouldn't that be even more of a reason to try to make games for an untapped market? -emily |
Yes Jim, I stand by what I said. Maybe with the exception of the Nancy Drew games, which you seem to have listed by accident with a handful of edutainment/early learning titles, you really don't seem to understand what this thread is trying to say.
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My apologies: Jake isn't Scandanavian. I screwed up and confused his location with Deadsie's. My apologies to you both.
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Ensuing flamewar notwithsnding, IMO, the key to the 8-13 boy demographic is the characters. This is at a time where kids are exercising their last little bits of imagination before they become boring, self-aware teenagers. Kids at that age still feel helpless and identify with the underdog, putting themselves into the situations, which is why movies like Star Wars, Indy or POTC are popular in that age group. When I played the Monkey Island games for the first time, I loved Guybrush because he had no real talent but still ended up saving the day.
The other factor at work is the badass factor, but thats more prevalent in action games. |
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BJ: you can make a point about historical perspective or whatever you please but can you do it without taking a dump on the whole spirit of this thread? If you really do have a some real points to offer then do so in a wording and phrasing that doesn't make me think that you secretly wished that we (that is to say people of my age group and history with adventure games) didn't in fact sit in front of personal computers in the late 80ies or early 90ies, were never acknowledged on internet forums and have no right to express their ideas and wishes for these games. In case you hadn't figured this out yet (you've had a lot of time on this forum to find out) this hardly leads to productive discussions.
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While allowing staff members to call people "idiots" is contructive?
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I wasn't suggesting (or certainly didn't mean to suggest) that there weren't kids playing adventure games in the 80's, I was suggesting that, at least in the USA, such kids made up a small minority of the American adventure game marketplace. This fact is commonly overlooked in this forum whenever there are age-related marketing issues discussed, and I feel it appropriate to point it out from time to time to give a wider "historical" perspective. This seemed like one of those times. I had no intention of starting a flamewar. I didn't expected the Spanish Inquisition.
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Sorry, couldn't help myself. :devil: |
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The things you're quoting as "facts" -- without any proof aside from your insisting louder and louder -- go 100% against what I actually remembered, did and experienced personally with adventure games at the age in question, so I'm going to have to side with myself more than your unsubstantiated, repeated insisting. PS: And stop playing the sad-eyed puppy "how dare a staff member make a comment like that" card. You were a huge wanker when you were on staff, too. We're posting in a public forum, this isn't an article I'm writing for Adventure Gamers. If I'm not mistaken there's even a disclaimer at the bottom stating as much, so maybe you can shut up about that once and for all. |
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