[Intrepid Homoludens]

It wouldn't matter, because you'd have a party of at least 3 characters. The soldier/scout just happens to be the toughest of all of them, so it makes sense to send him out to a dangerous area to see if there's anything worthwhile. I don't think it's boring at all, he'll be the only one who could sustain injury, the more upgraded his level is, the further out he could venture, and the more new places the player gets to see and explore and discover new stuff. Action/combat need not apply here, just toughness and strength. Of course, once he returns, your scientist (healer/medic) could administer first aid as needed.

Also, what if, according to the ship's log, there was a shipment of valuable supplies (medicines, food, etc.) in an otherwise dangerous place, and it's under lock and key. If you send only the con artist (rogue/thief) to pick the lock he may be very susceptible to getting killed by falling debris. But, if you sent the policeman (soldier/scout) he could take more damage and clear out the way for the con artist first.

[CrimsonBlue]

I've always considered the traditional Final Fantasy games to be sort of a mixture between RPG and adventure. You have the stats, the action and the length of the RPGs, and the strong and intriguing story as well as atmosphere of an adventuregame. It also have the occasional puzzle, like in Final Fantasy VII, when you need to dress up as a girl and you have to run around and talk to people to get the different items that makes up a complete outfit. That moment in FFVII is pure adventure IMO.

[BacardiJim]

Slightly off topic, but which FF game was it where you had to perform an opera? It also had an area where you had to split your party up and have some people stand on special tiles to open doorways for the other half of the party.

[Stinger]

Ah, that's Final Fantasy III (SNES)--also known as FF6 in Japan and on the later Final Fantasy Anthology PSX rerelease--that you're talking about. Which I would know well, as my signature tells me I'm currently replaying it. A brilliant, brilliant genre-defining RPG that really took the entire console RPG to a whole new level. The opera scene is just one of the many really, really amazing and creative things about that game.

[BacardiJim]

Errr.... sorry, Evan. I should have been more clear. I knew it was FF3 on SNES, but I wondered which installment it corresponded to on PC, since I know the numbering is different.


That was perhaps my all-time fave SNES game. Not that FF2 was any slouch.

[MeddlingMonk]

I consider Ultima IX an unintential blend of RPG and adventure game. I don't really think the designers planned it this way, but for an RPG it has an oddly strong reliance on conversations and puzzles. Stat building is fairly atrophied and combat is largely a matter of whacking things until they die (of boredom, perhaps). As an RPG is rather weak; it's somewhat better as an adventure game (and even after six years it still looks gorgeous).

[Stinger]

Originally Posted by BacardiJim

Errr.... sorry, Evan. I should have been more clear. I knew it was FF3 on SNES, but I wondered which installment it corresponded to on PC, since I know the numbering is different.


That was perhaps my all-time fave SNES game. Not that FF2 was any slouch.

It actually never came out on PC--only FF7 and FF8 were released for PC and their numbering is the same as their PSX twins.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by MeddlingMonk

...combat is largely a matter of whacking things until they die (of boredom, perhaps).

LOL!!

[Erkki]

Perhaps one of the fundamental differences between RPG and Adventure games is that in RPG's (and other story-games except adventure) there is always repetitive stuff -- combat, levelling up, looting, typical quests etc. While in adventure games, at least story-wise every puzzle is usually unique, even if some of them are very similar.
The only things that could be considered repetitive are when you are stuck and employ the 'use every object on everything' tactic. Or things like insult duels in Monkey Island.

Intrepid, would your example hybrid have repetitive stuff? Like hacking computers numerous times with the same methods etc. I think that in a hybrid, what decides the balance (more RPG or more Adventure) may be how much of the repetitive gameplay there is.

[Kolorabi]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Also, what if, according to the ship's log, there was a shipment of valuable supplies (medicines, food, etc.) in an otherwise dangerous place, and it's under lock and key. If you send only the con artist (rogue/thief) to pick the lock he may be very susceptible to getting killed by falling debris. But, if you sent the policeman (soldier/scout) he could take more damage and clear out the way for the con artist first.

You're essentially describing Project Eden without the combat.

http://archive.gamespy.com/reviews/n...1/projecteden/

"You're given a team of four players, each with limitations and special abilities, and just about every situation you encounter will require you to use multiple people to get through it. Some areas require you to use small, robotic devices (both ground-based and airborne) that are player controlled to reach locks or switches. Whether it's Carter's security clearance and leadership, Minoko's computer hacking, Andre's repair abilities, or Amber's imperviousness to hazardous materials (fire, poison gas, etc.), everyone has a role."

Project Eden isn't an RPG, though, it's an action/adventure.

[Lurcher]

Planescape:Torment didn't have mechanical puzzles...but it had a story and dialogue that was really well done. Its more an adventure/rpg for AGS'ers.
The combat is the giant puzzle and took alot of thought about how to equip to match your style of play.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Kolorabi

You're essentially describing Project Eden without the combat.

I forgot about that game. It received mixed reviews, didn't it? Have you played it?

[Kolorabi]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

I forgot about that game. It received mixed reviews, didn't it?

Yes, here's an overview of the review scores it got: http://www.metacritic.com/games/plat...c/projecteden/

Most review scores seems to be between 80% and 70%. I was not too impressed by the demo, but I did pick the game up at a sale, and I'm hoping to get enough time to try it properly.

[fov]

Originally Posted by BacardiJim

Slightly off topic, but which FF game was it where you had to perform an opera? It also had an area where you had to split your party up and have some people stand on special tiles to open doorways for the other half of the party.

Not the same as what you're describing, but FF8 does have puzzles near the end of the game where one half of the party needs to do certain things to allow the other half of the party to progress through a room.

I agree that the FF games are good examples of RPG + adventure babies. I just wish more of them were ported to the PC.

Oh, and I'd hope in this day and age, if the RPG and the adventure game were to make love they'd be using protection. True, a few gems may emerge, but just consider the destructive potential of the rest of those bastard babies...

-emily

[TM3]

If the two genres banged each other up (and properly done), you’d get wonderful games like Beyond Good & Evil!

[LeisureSuitedLooney]

Don't know if anyone here has played Arcanum, but I do know that people have, in the past, played that as an adventure-oriented game, by choosing to play as "pacifists". Plainly put, they would avoid as much combat as possible, increase their personality traits, and just talk or charm their way out of situations. Even during random monster encounters, it's possible to just "run away". It's difficult to do, but supposedly, these other players have completed the game that way.

[AFGNCAAP]

I'm not so sure, Intrepid. I admit it, there is something appealing in your idea, but the whole thing - if badly implemented - would probably end up as annoying yet pure adventure with plenty Syberia-like "No need to go down there" replies. The AGs have used this type of obstacles (ie. not allowing to solve a puzzle before some seemingly unrelated action is performed) almost forever, and usually it irritated the players rather than did anything else.

[tippex79]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolorabi
You're essentially describing Project Eden without the combat.




I forgot about that game. It received mixed reviews, didn't it? Have you played it?

Project Eden is not a favourite of mine I'm afraid. Although it has some nice ideas (like being able to control small probes to get places your characters can't and looking through security cameras) overall the puzzles are quite repetitive - it's just a question of getting the right characters in the right places to open doors to progress through the game.

It is a problem with games like this that they tend to be more about moving the characters around than having any really interesting puzzles - but I guess in an adventure more emphasis would be put on inventing clever puzzles.

[Robert_Cath]

Originally Posted by TigerShard

Can't we all just play Quest for Glory and be happy?

I agree

[gillyruless]

If the RPG and the Adventure Game made love,...

adventure purists will be trying to kick Trep's ass!

Trep, I know that you have suggested many things to "improve" adventure games, and I have to say that this is probably the weakest one so far. Basically, you are suggesting a creation of RPG without any action. I'm not sure if a game like that will create enough following to justify the cost and time it's going to take to develop it. It will probably be shunned by both RPGers and AGers. It will be a bastard child that will be loved by no one. It it were an animal, the vets will be suggesting euthanasia to put it out of its misery.