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Old 09-07-2004, 05:40 AM   #1
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Default Just finished Syberia...

Me and my husband just finished Syberia. We did love this game. Great story and environments. We also liked the animations and great backgrounds etc. We so look forward to buying and playing Syberia II. We couldn't believe how fast the game ended though, we were expecting more when we actually found Hans.

We started The Longest Journey last night. Not bad so far, but we do prefer the syberia environments to busy city environments. Are there plenty of puzzles in this one?

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Old 09-07-2004, 05:45 AM   #2
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I just finished it as well. I'm stuck on Syberia 2 though.
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Old 09-07-2004, 05:47 AM   #3
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As I recall (I wasn't counting), TLJ has about the same or somewhat fewer puzzles than Syberia... scattered through a game that is easily 4-5 times as long. What puzzling is present is mostly concentrated in the chapter on board the ship. At least that is how it stands out in my memory. On the other hand, what puzzles there are are tougher than the ones in Syberia.
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Old 09-07-2004, 05:54 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BacardiJim
As I recall (I wasn't counting), TLJ has about the same or somewhat fewer puzzles than Syberia... scattered through a game that is easily 4-5 times as long. What puzzling is present is mostly concentrated in the chapter on board the ship. At least that is how it stands out in my memory. On the other hand, what puzzles there are are tougher than the ones in Syberia.
I seem to recall there was 10 times as many puzzles in TLJ as there was in Syberia in a game 5 times longer.
So I would say there are indeed plenty of puzzles in this game.
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Old 09-07-2004, 07:01 AM   #5
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The Longest Journey has plenty of puzzles, it's just that they are dwarfed by more dialogue (and flat humor) than a game should be allowed to have. Ragnar Tornquist needs an editor.

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Old 09-07-2004, 07:10 AM   #6
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TLJ does have a lot more puzzles than Syberia. Also, TLJ's puzzles are much more varied, involving cyphers, computer 'hacking', doing quests for NPCs, dialogue based, inventory based, etc.
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Old 09-07-2004, 08:30 AM   #7
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Also, just so you know, the whole game doesn't take place in city environments... those are mostly at the beginning.

Syberia I and II were originally going to be one long game, which may be why it felt like it ended abruptly to you.

-emily
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Old 09-08-2004, 11:16 AM   #8
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Syberia is a true work of art. I just started the second one. I love the laid back feel of the game. The only bad part for me is Oscar....stupid, stupid Oscar
TLJ is a great game also. The only thing that bugged me about it was the unnessecary length of dialoug and the graphics led much to be desired at some points. But for the story...you can't beat TLJ.
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Old 09-08-2004, 12:22 PM   #9
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I think TLJ has more puzzles than Syberia but I am not sure. In any case thay are something more than see an egg-use there an egg. Though not hard.
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Old 09-08-2004, 01:15 PM   #10
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I think Oscar was vey important in the story, and Trep wrote a beautiful essay (Life and Death on Rails) that had a very good explanation of the part he played in it. I love it in Syberia that all characters are metaphors.
Yes, Syberia is a work of art, the only novelesque game I played, and, though many might disagree, played a very important part in the evolution of gaming.
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Old 09-08-2004, 01:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sly Boots
I think Oscar was vey important in the story, and Trep wrote a beautiful essay (Life and Death on Rails) that had a very good explanation of the part he played in it. I love it in Syberia that all characters are metaphors.
Yes, Syberia is a work of art, the only novelesque game I played, and, though many might disagree, played a very important part in the evolution of gaming.

I'm not sure what you mean by novelesque -- if you just mean a great story, then there are plenty of RPGs that beat out Syberia in that regard (in my opinion). And yes, I disagree about the evolution of gaming.........I found absolutely nothing in Syberia that was innovative in any way. It was a fun game, but far from special. One of the better adventure games released recently, yes, but that's more a result of the lack of many releases than anything.

EDIT:

I just wanted to add that I'm not attacking Syberia, or trying to put it down in any way. I just didn't get a sense of anything spectacular while playing through and beating the two games -- they were fun for the little bit of time I spent playing them. But I don't feel like I'd ever want to go back and play through it again, and other games HAVE given me that feeling. It's a good, fun game...........just not anything worthy of high praise in my opinion.

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Old 09-08-2004, 01:44 PM   #12
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Most RPGs have embarrassingly bad stories, unfortunately.
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Old 09-08-2004, 01:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanjuro2
Most RPGs have embarrassingly bad stories, unfortunately.
Oh, I agree. But there are so many RPGs out there that it'd be nearly impossible if a few of them didn't have great stories, and some of them do. And because of the length of the games, they have so much more time to develop characters and events and the background -- it's like reading an entire set of novels rather than just a single novel.

Of course, I also wasn't really that impressed with Syberia's story, so....
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Old 09-08-2004, 01:49 PM   #14
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By the way, am I alone in being thrilled that Syberia 1 and 2 were separate game instead one whole game? The first one is so much better... In fact, the sequel harms the characters that were so great in the original. And all subtlety is tossed to the winds...
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Old 09-08-2004, 01:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanjuro2
By the way, am I alone in being thrilled that Syberia 1 and 2 were separate game instead one whole game? The first one is so much better... In fact, the sequel harms the characters that were so great in the original. And all subtlety is tossed to the winds...
Once again I agree completely. Syberia 2 was nowhere near as good as the first one.
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Old 09-08-2004, 01:55 PM   #16
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edlglide, we have a very different view of things... I don't believe it's necessarily an asset to take more time to develop characters, particularly given the fact that RPG writers are often terrible. I believe there is true skill to be found in effective "editing", so to speak. I've never seen characters in ANY RPG that are as good as those in say...The Godfather (which I name simply because most people have seen it). And I can spend three hours with that and be far more satisfied than a 40 hour RPG that only took so long to "develop" things because the writers lacked the skill to abolish useless filler.

But, this is my view, not yours. And believe me, there was a time when I would have agreed with you...
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Old 09-08-2004, 02:12 PM   #17
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May contain spoilers.

What I meant by 'novelesque' is that a more detailed version of the game's story could have been a great novel (it uses a lot of narrative techniques). The NPC's are all alter-egoes of Kate one way or the other, and the whole game is full of symbols. It feels like an allegory, and you can feel the way Kate changes throughout her journey. This is the only game that doesn't resort to the good vs. bad clichee (I'm talking about the first one). It's all about Kate and her transformation, her 'death', as Trep very well put it.
When I said evolution I was talking about the story, not gameplay. It's very deep and full of implications. Sokal was trying to make a point and he did. I'm no expert so I'm not going to say I understood it and you didn't. It's just so difficult and meaningful, like nothing I ever seen in a game before. It was just different.
That's the way I feel about it. That doesn't mean it's any good, just that it touched me like no other game. It's not my favourite game, but if all games were books, it would definately be my favourite book.
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Old 09-08-2004, 02:20 PM   #18
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Hey Sly...TOTALLY agree with your assessment. Except for one thing. I think Syberia is as it should be, the way it is. A more detailed version of the story for a novel would betray what makes the whole thing so wonderful. It's the entire experience. The visuals, the music, the symbolism, the characterization, etc. Syberia wouldn't be Syberia as a book. And "detail" is in the game, as you know, it's just not expressed through written words, but through the artform of visual and audible expression.
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Old 09-08-2004, 02:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanjuro2
edlglide, we have a very different view of things... I don't believe it's necessarily an asset to take more time to develop characters, particularly given the fact that RPG writers are often terrible. I believe there is true skill to be found in effective "editing", so to speak. I've never seen characters in ANY RPG that are as good as those in say...The Godfather (which I name simply because most people have seen it). And I can spend three hours with that and be far more satisfied than a 40 hour RPG that only took so long to "develop" things because the writers lacked the skill to abolish useless filler.

But, this is my view, not yours. And believe me, there was a time when I would have agreed with you...
I think you misinterpreted what I said. It's not necessarily an asset to take more time to develop characters at all -- but when someone is actually doing a good job with it, more time = better. There are some RPGs with phenomenal stories, and excellent writing. Not the majority of them by any means, but yes there are some quality ones. I agree with you that there are many movies with far better characters than those found in any RPG..........but your mention of 40 hours compared to 3 is misleading. Someone writing for an RPG probably doesn't have more than 4 or 5 hours of storytelling anyways -- most of that 40 hours is spent wandering around in dungeon-type areas and fighting/killing things. A movie, on the other hand, is 100% storytelling. In any case, I agree that some movies offer better characters than you'll find in any RPG, but that doesn't mean there aren't RPGs with quality stories. And furthermore, I was arguing RPG stories against other gaming stories......not against real novels or movies. I've yet to play any game (including Syberia, which I discuss momentarily) that can come close in terms of story and character development to some of the classic novels and movies that we all know.

As for Syberia........I just disagree with you two completely regarding the story. I don't think it would have been a good novel -- I think it's rather amateurish in writing terms, if you start trying to compare it to really excellent novels. As far as games go the story is done quite well (although I didn't find it all that meaningful, I found it somewhat smug about it's perceived depth), but it can't hold a candle to most quality books. This is of course purely my opinion, and you certainly could have taken something from the story that I did not. Just like a book, really......some people think a certain book is beautifully written and full of depth whereas others think just the opposite. Not from a lack of intelligence by any means, but simply from a difference in viewpoint. So I suppose we can just agree that we disagree about the story.
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Old 09-08-2004, 03:07 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edlglide
I've yet to play any game (including Syberia, which I discuss momentarily) that can come close in terms of story and character development to some of the classic novels and movies that we all know.
Well, I must say I agree... However, though it is your right to not like Syberia, did you read Intrepid's essay? I just read it about two hours ago, and I must say...I no longer will waste my time trying to EXPLAIN this game to people. I will just link them to the essay. Intrepid sees all of the things that I saw and enjoyed, it's a great read. It can really enhance most people's understanding and appreciation for that game. Perhaps you have read it and you still disagree, but I was just wondering.


EDIT:

And I do believe the best adventure games come closer to the great films and books in the storytelling and characterization aspects than RPGs. Heh.
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